[Kealym]

Originally Posted by UsagiTenpura

Still I wanted to say this : what kind of motives are you looking for? "Parasites made them do it", "they had a really horrible life", "they're nuts and or/melodramatic" or "they are total jerks".

I'm honestly asking, what kind of motive would be satisfying to you all, because I personally cannot see any really satisfying motive within the realm of mystery.
I don't mean acceptable, I mean something that would satisfy most fans and Will's "heart" thing.

I would accept a motive that makes sense, and is fully supported by previous characterization, clues in the text, and just, the plot itself. I think Will's "heart" thing was directed at mysteries where the puzzle element of a mystery is given more consideration than the human element of it.

I don't think, at all, that the stuff about "heart" means "the culprit must be sympathetic", just ... understandable? I would readily accept "greed" or "revenge" or "crazy love" as motives if they made sense and were supported by the text. There's nothing wrong with, say, greed as a motive ... but you really need to present a situation where killing 17 people in the face can accomplish that. The problem with Yasutrice (even considering just the gameboards) is all you can really make of it is
1. Murder
2. ???
3. PROFIT / MAGIC !

For the same reason, I consider Erika's "motive" for Natsuhi-culprit in EP5 especially worthless and trashy, on almost every talking point. To name something at random, the implication that Natsuhi was sexing up Kinzo was based on NOTHING AT ALL outside of Bern trolling with contrapositives, and Lambda being too amused to call her out on it, or whatever.

Originally Posted by Kiltias

Totally ignoring the part that the Witch in the tale is implied as their mother and when the witch died so she?
Seeing that the mother of Hänsel and Gretel is named as their biological but in other version their stepmother, and being displayed as a schemer that is badly out for money to the point of sacrificing the kids is more than enough reason to look into.
Especially when we have several indications of Kyrie being deep in this, question is just how much.

I'm not ignoring it, I just don't think it's very important. There are many, many different versions of old folk tales like that (don't get me started on the more vulgar tellings of Little Red Riding Hood), and the Grimm Brothers merely collected, and often, altered them to be more acceptable to the readership of their time.

It is interesting that the mother is sometimes their biological mother, and sometimes their stepmother, since Kyrie is a "stepmother" who is, in reality, a biological mother, but I'd consider it a nice bonus, since it's a less consistent detail. I would also say that she was not implied to be the witch, at all, except perhaps metaphorically.

Also, I'm almost certain Ryukishi himself said he named Ange, Kyrie, and Asumu after support spells from Ragnarok Online (woohoo, Full Support Priests for the WIN!). It always amused me (and I guess, him), since you can't cast Kyrie-Eleison and Assumptio on the same target ... well, you can, but one will overwrite the other. And Angelus is a prerequisite spell for learning both.

Also, I'm curious why you think Kyrie, specifically, is far more involved than any of the other adults?

Originally Posted by Kiltias

Scuse me, this is probably cause English isn't my mother language but does the second red mean each one of them was killed by someone else than the other?

Yeah, it definitely could have been worded better (a lot of the Reds can be, honestly). Cao Ni Ma has it right, though, it's supposed to mean that their death was definitely a homicide.

Originally Posted by RandomAvatarFan

Ah, that's right. I forgot about EP4... yikes...

Honestly, I was just being kind of silly, and quite aware that the Kyrie Motive as presented in EP7 and EP8 was quite weak. Still, it would be interesting to find that there is some sort of loophole in the red that makes it possible for Kyrie to have committed the crimes, considering Bern used it twice against Ange, there must have been *something* to it, other than "Ange is alive and is now the heir to all the Ushiromiya's money."

Weeeellll, we know Rudolf got one of the posthumous vaults full of money ala' Our Confessions ... and there IS that one removed frame from Eva's diary where Kyrie was holding a gun?