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fukarming · 2013-09-09, 04:11

My 2 cents on this discussion so far:

I don't agree with the "sexist" comment at all.

In a harem anime, even if the guy is completely useless, the girls still need to "earn" his affection: not because it is sexist, but because he is the only relevant guy.

It is not sexist since the same can apply to reverse harem: even the girl is nothing spectacular, the guys need to "earn" her affection just because she is the only relevant female.

As of the whole debate on Mary Sue characters:

I don't believe there is a way to say whether he/she is a sue character, as most main characters have some sue characteristics: whether it is too much or not depends on the audience personal tolerance. For example:

Spoiler for railgun spoiler:

Spoiler for LOGH spoiler:

I didn't watch SAO, so I have no idea what Kirito do. But given others comment he is probably a 60-80/100 Stu?

Here is a new example:

Spoiler for gun x clover spoiler:

In short, no, i don't believe having a sue-ish character automatically make the story bad, same with most other types of characters: having a "realistic character" (character that you probably meet every day on the street) have problems as well: if he/she is so "realistic" why is the story center around him/her? That happen when people accuse XYZ show/character is bland; having a weak character also have problem: it make audience grind their teeth to see such useless person in action. IMO, it is all about the writings. Accusing Sue-ish character ruin a story is similar to people who claims winning a lottery ruin their lives: it is not the lottery (sue character) that ruin your life (the story), the sole fault lies with you (the writer/the story writing) alone.

2013-09-09, 04:11	Link #72
fukarming Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	My 2 cents on this discussion so far: I don't agree with the "sexist" comment at all. In a harem anime, even if the guy is completely useless, the girls still need to "earn" his affection: not because it is sexist, but because he is the only relevant guy. It is not sexist since the same can apply to reverse harem: even the girl is nothing spectacular, the guys need to "earn" her affection just because she is the only relevant female. As of the whole debate on Mary Sue characters: I don't believe there is a way to say whether he/she is a sue character, as most main characters have some sue characteristics: whether it is too much or not depends on the audience personal tolerance. For example: Spoiler for railgun spoiler: Mikoto is probably a 20/100 Sue: she is rich, she is powerful and everyone likes her. But she got her ass kicked by Accelerator and have plenty of teenage girls flaws Spoiler for LOGH spoiler: Yang Wenli is probably a 40/100 Stu: If you give him an army, he can achieve the best possible outcome; if not his opponent will act out of character just to let him win (Reinhard "climax" battle with Yang........why don't George Bush go to middle east with little guards to lure out the terrorist ). Thus I agree with Akito that in LOGH the best battles are the one Yang is not involved. However, the vast cast of LOGH and the interesting interaction of Yang and other characters make him not a stu: he may trivialize his opponents in battles (all his opponents in battle, including Reinhard, feels like a 3 year old when they face Yang), but not in the whole scheme of the story I didn't watch SAO, so I have no idea what Kirito do. But given others comment he is probably a 60-80/100 Stu? Here is a new example: Spoiler for gun x clover spoiler: Morito has some pretty strong Stu characteristic: He is the strongest character in the series so far, able to go almost even with his master, the big bad who cheat with supernatural power. Every girl in the series want a piece of him, and he is always right. But I still like the story, mainly because it is a story of protector: doesn't matter if he is the strongest character in the show, if he failed to protect then he "lost", making the story still interesting and relevant. In short, no, i don't believe having a sue-ish character automatically make the story bad, same with most other types of characters: having a "realistic character" (character that you probably meet every day on the street) have problems as well: if he/she is so "realistic" why is the story center around him/her? That happen when people accuse XYZ show/character is bland; having a weak character also have problem: it make audience grind their teeth to see such useless person in action. IMO, it is all about the writings. Accusing Sue-ish character ruin a story is similar to people who claims winning a lottery ruin their lives: it is not the lottery (sue character) that ruin your life (the story), the sole fault lies with you (the writer/the story writing) alone. __________________ They came first for sharks fin,I didn't speak up because I don't eat sharks fin. Then they came for foie gras,I didn't speak up because I don't eat foie gras. Then they came for Toro (bluefin tuna) sushi,I didn't speak up because I don't eat sushi. Then they came for me and force me to be a vegan by that time no one was left to speak up.