[IkuzeMinna]

Originally Posted by DuoRanger

Yaoi Fangirls are Horrible, even G Gundam, Zeta and 00 suffers from this.

in fact, duo, Wu Fei and heero's relationship its more like THIS!, than some yaoi fancrap over the series.

LOL Man, I really need to sit down and watch Pulp Fiction. Even if I'll get only half of what they're saying. xD

But yeah, even though I don't think they'd cuss as much, the relationship between them is definitely closer to that than the soap operas many yaoi fans are fond of. Sadly, as Eeni said, everything with two males will have a yaoi fanbase. The question is just how large it will be. I believe that's proportionate to the number of bishounen featured in a series (regardless if they ever even talk to each other or not >_>).
It's not like I mind yaoi itself, but the stubbornness with which its fans insist on the show being intentionally written with that message when really, it's just their own preferences acting up, is what gets me.

By the way pal, would you mind censoring the expletives in your last posts? I wouldn't want kids to read that. And I don't want you to get into trouble due to forum rules either.

Originally Posted by Sommer

I understand that people could get tired of all the slash in the fandom. I mean, I greatly dislike all the shipping stuff by myself but there is nothing bad with thinking that a character is homosexual because there is NOTHING wrong with homosexuality. And lets face it 1xR fans aren't any better, rabid shippers are gonna ruin shit no mater what they like .

Agreed on the rabid shippers. Heaven help you if you try to argue with logic.

But I don't think yaoi is about homosexuality. When you look at its fans, most of them are girls. And if you (can manage to) read a story, you'll notice that it's nothing like a real homosexual relationship. Because being in a homosexual relationship first and foremost means you have two men (or two women) involved with each other. And the term "chickification" didn't come out of het fics.

From what I've read, most yaoi fans (likely the pubescent ones) treat the characters they supposedly write about with such disrespect and bend them so completely out of shape that you end up with stories in which Heero is suddenly a head taller than Duo and have him all bulky and brawny and broad-shouldered whereas "Duo" is petite and slim and fragile and whatever else they call him. We're not really referring to the same character here, are we? That's a self-insert with a braid and the name "Duo" plastered on it. Which is likely why "Duo" also acts... ... ... ...man, what word do I choose that won't upset the female part of this thread? Uh, girly? As in, showering one's lover with physical displays of affection en mass and being all demure and cutesy cute and giving cute nicknames and simply loving to put one's head on the other's shoulder to be hugged and have one's hair caressed gently and- Okay, I'm gagging.

Putting my personal preferences aside, I admit, I haven't read many yaoi fics, so I'm likely unfit to make such generalizations but these are the salient characteristics I have noticed in most fics (which funnily enough, apply to the females in most het fics, too). I'm obviously excluding the few good ones here.
I don't think yaoi fans will care much about pairing gruff-looking, brawny old men that have flokati rugs sprouting on their chests. That's too "manly." It's usually the younger ones that by comparison come off as more "effeminate" due to either their young age or the artist's decision, who lack "manly" features like beards or angular heads etc. Just look at how 'uke' and 'seme' are written. The only thing that will differentiate the 'uke' from a girly chick both in character and physical build is between their legs, while the 'seme' will in the best cases resemble the original character somewhat and only have him all angsty or protective (depending on the genre), or in the worst case, will be the author's abusive jerk of an ex-boyfriend.
What's also interesting to note is the description itself; I remember one author describing Heero the usual way as tall, well-built and with sharp facial features whereas she went on and on about how beautiful Duo's eyes were and how oddly long his lashes were and blah. Meaning, although you had two males, they were treated completely differently, zooming in on completely different characteristics and of course acting accordingly different.
Or doujin. The difference with which they're drawn is jarring, both from their anime counterparts and each other.

I don't know why people do that. Maybe it's because they can't relate to the females in the show (just compare Relena and Lacus) or maybe they like to mess with gender roles. Perhaps it's the same as with males being into two girls making out. But the horny stuff is just porn, so I'm not even going to deign it with serious thought.
All I know is that this style of writing is most popular with young girls, not homosexual males. What's more is that they hardly care about the actual characters. If they look cute, they can be emo vampires sprouting wings in a highschool fic when the anime itself is about war and politics. But I wouldn't call those fans of the show anyway.
I'm inclined to blame it on puberty and the subsequent budding sexuality for the most part. But yeah, all in all, yaoi =/= homosexuality.
And I just realized I've been talking mostly about shōnen ai. Ha.

Originally Posted by susyia

in the last episode he calls quatre quatre-kun sooo i think duo is the last person people think he would end ...
and the gundam pilots are NOT gay ....

He called Quatre "Quatre-kun?" Would you mind telling me when exactly that happened because I don't remember that. And I'm pretty sure I would've noticed..?

As for the pilots being gay, I go with the usual rules of fiction. If it's not a theme and it's not even hinted at, there's no reason to assume the authors meant it's there. *shrug*

Originally Posted by Black Lion

I tend to just ignore all the romance parts of Gundam anyway. I watch these series to see robots tearing shit up, not to see poorly written Japanese ambiguous non-committal relationships. I don't think I've ever seen a Japanese story that has any kind of believable romance.

Hmm, the Vision of Escaflowne is the only one that comes to mind but then again, expectations differ from person to person. I think the more west you go, the more physical a relationship ought to be to be considered one..?
Besides, Japanese culture is a little different from the West, especially in terms of gender roles, and I'll hardly admit brilliance on the Gundam directors' part when it comes to romance, so ignoring it is perhaps the best thing you can do.

The closest it comes is with Wufei I think. He had a wife at a young age, she died, and now he fights in her memory without getting overly sappy about it. In fact I don't think he ever mentions it to anyone in the story at all.

He doesn't, mostly due to the script for the Episode Zero episodes being handed in too late. lol But it's hinted at. There's a scene from episode 12, in which Wu Fei tells Sally that "it wasn't [him] who saved [them], it was Nataku." Sally asks if Nataku is the name of his Gundam but Wu Fei's only reply is "...".

Spoiler for screenshot:

To Sally it's just a small remark but you can see how loaded a question it is for Wu Fei. This is where GW being subtle works excellently. It's obviously a touchy subject for him to stop talking so abruptly. Not even Master Long dares to bring it up (then again, that's after ep 27+28, so yeah...). A shame EZ didn't make it into the series, really.

I like that he keeps to himself mostly instead of whining and throwing his problems over everyone else.

Noin would beg to differ. But I know what you mean.

That, as well as his conflicts with Relena's pacifist views and his willingness to come to his own conclusions about war and his situation instead of following every would-be philosopher in the series makes him one of the more interesting characters in the Gundam franchise, and in anime in general. Especially considering the fact that he's Chinese, a people who are popularly thought of as being oppressed by their government and outside invaders throughout history.

Indeed but that holds true for everyone though. Well, except the Chinese part.
Sally's convictions and reasons to fight differ from Noin's, yet they're in the same boat. Zechs obviously can't make up his mind on why he wants to (continue to) fight but in the end proves the same as Treize. Quatre goes against his father's wishes. Duo fights because "he should be the only one to suffer as much as he has," yet tells Noin he's not especially devoted. Trowa goes from feeling insecure outside the battlefield to wanting to protect someone. Even Heero loses faith in himself at one point but instead of latching onto someone else's ideals has Epyon mindscrew him into battle again. When they were all on Peacemillion deciding whom to fight, they were still debating.

This is really what I love about GW. We don't have generic characters that just blindly follow orders or other people just because it's their job or they're the "good guys" or whatever *coughSeedcough*. The characters have their own motives they bring to the battlefield, which is why Wu Fei would naturally be upset that the world didn't change one bit in EW when he swore to his wife that he'd change the times, whereas Heero is so fed up with killing, he just wants the war to be over. The most important part here was that Heero did not force his convictions on Wu Fei nor did he dare say he was wrong. He only asked him to reflect.
Huge difference from other anime in which it's usually "I'm right and you're wrong because my fist says so."

Originally Posted by Ferhb

Jesus, that would make him related to Treize... please, don't do that, people.

Which in turn would make him related to Mariemaia, too. I think he'd be her second-grade uncle? Hah, "shot" by her uncle. Seeing as how it was Heero's fault Mariemaia was fathered in the first place and how messed up the Kushrenada family is in FT, I'd say it would fit perfectly. xD