[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

Of course I believe in things like basic human rights for everyone but my point is I don't think the form of government is the main problem in the human society.

A society can have a so called democracy and not be a better place. Heck you can technically have a democracy and not have human rights for all your citizens.

True, but the way Yakomaru speaks of the democratic form of government embraced by his people, it sounds like its based on egalitarian ideals.

Yakomaru could be lying, of course, but it's hard for me to see why he would lie here. What does he have to gain by telling the humans of SSY that his people have embraced democracy and egalitarian ideals?

But that is where I strongly disagree with you. I have not seen any indication that the Queer Rat society is better than the human society.

I never said that the Queer Rat society is better than the human society of SSY.

You wrote "It might be true the queer rats are becoming more human but is our own human society that the queer rats might be emulating really so great?" (bold emphasis mine)

To which I replied "It's better than the human society in SSY, imo"

Perhaps I wasn't as clear as I should have been, but what I meant by that is that I think that "our own human society" (i.e. modern human society in the real world) is better than the human society in SSY. So better for the Queerats to emulate historical human society than the human society in SSY, imo.

I think the problem is we are looking at this differently because my theory about what is happening here is probably very different than yours. I don't see this as a story of slaves against their oppressors. I see it instead as tragedy that is supposed to give us a feeling of deja-vu. I could be very wrong and you could be right about the ultimate path the story is going to take but ultimately I don't think we are supposed to see either side as "right". I just feel an outsider watching a tragedy unfold.

You could well be right, but I honestly hope you're wrong. I have little interest in seeing some bleak, pointless tragedy unfold that would make even Gen Urobuchi blush. I'd rather think there's a theme to this work that points to what it truly means to be human, and so the queerats are now eclipsing humans due to how humans have lost sight of that while queerats are embracing it.

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Whoa, whoa...

You should watch Legend of Galactic Heroes.

I have watched it. What's your point?

Is there a form of government that you think is better than democracy?

Also, to return the topic to where we started - Squealer's little monologue in ep 17 about their colony being a ~democracy~ where each and every individual is valuable, unlike the old ways where they're just pawns to be sacrificed whenever needed, etc. etc..... this coming from Squealer was sketchy to start with, but after this episode? Where his actions pretty much went against of what he preached?

So what do you suggest he do? Just tell his people to stand still, or do whatever they want, and wait to be slaughtered? Sure the odds are horribly against them, but taking the fight to the humans is probably their best bet for eventually winning this war.

I don't see anything that happened in this episode that is incompatible with what Yakomaru has already stated pertaining to the ideals that his people ostensibly adhere to. You can't have individual rights if you don't deal with more powerful beings that are oppressing you. That's pretty obvious, if you ask me. At worst, it's an exception that proves the rule.

Oh, but if the tool is being used to free slaves, murder innocents, and also murder their own kind - then what?

Again, what do you suggest he do? Can you think of a non-violent way for the Queerats to free themselves of harsh human control and manipulation?

Really - there's no "bad" side and "good" side in this story.

Even if so, a viewer could conceivably find one side more sympathetic than the other.