[Thryfe]

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

No, Sakura isn't fighting willingly in HF, but what he does manage to do is activate Angra Mainyu inside her, which means she will end up fighting eventually, one way or another.

I didn't say she fought willingly, That small opening he made wasnt what activated AM. It was the opening he needed to manipulate her with mind games. The activation of AM was when she was "chosen" by Shirou, the person she did not want to lose. All of her bottled up emotions poured out at that point.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

It's not so much that he doesn't know she has feelings for him as he doesn't know that he can use those against her. In particular, he has no idea that Shirou is a master. Sakura won't tell him, and he isn't likely to be out spying on a war he has no interest in.

He absolutely would know if Shirou is a master, Shirou was IN his house talking with Shinji about the war and teaming up. He is going to know whats happening in his own house. His original plan was to observe the war, saying he wont be spying on a war he has no interest in would be wrong. Considering he planned to spy on it not participate.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

The thing is that you're making a false assumption that he's given up. He hasn't, he's just waiting for a better opportunity. Even Sakura still has usefulness outside the war, in that she can provide him with another heir to experiment on.

There is no better opportunity. That's why he says himself he should just restrict himself to watching, but acts because Sakura turned out PERFECT all he needed to do was create a small opening, which he does literally a few lines of dialogue later. Why would he pass up the perfect opportunity to stop his excruciating decay that hes been enduring for hundreds of years.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Well, Kotomine knows about him, for a start. And, even if no-one knows about him now, if he gets involved in the Grail War they're likely to find out. And, at least three of the masters have good reason to want to kill him if they find out the full truth (or, in Kotomine's case, just because).

It doesn't matter if they find out about him as we clearly see in HF.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

That doesn't make sense, because all three routes start from the same point. If Zouken died early in Fate he would also die early in HF.

Maybe I didn't explain it right, Nasu said he would Rather have two routes disappear if one were true. We ONLY see Zouken in HF only after we choose the new option to take Sakura home, from that point onward the stories have nothing to do with each other, its like they are parallel universes. looking at one route makes the other two What IF stories. The only thing all 3 have in common is the prologue, and Zouken isn't in that. So if im looking at Fate as the true route(for example) Then Zouken has already withered sometime earlier. Then we ask ourselves the question what if this Zouken guy was still around, we would then get the what if that is HF. This applies to all routes depending on which one we the reader, choose is the main route.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

Nope, all three stories have a common beginning, if something is true in one it's true in the other two.

That wouldn't make sense imo, so because Shirou has archers arm in HF it means he somehow has it in Fate also? You said if something is true in one its true in the other two.

Originally Posted by Cherry_Lover

It's a bigger plot hole, because it implies that Shirou choosing to walk Sakura home magically extends Zouken's lifespan by several decades....

You cant look at all 3 routes at the same time otherwise you get a conclusion like that. Nasu says "If all of these became possible at the same time, the other routes would become meaningless." Depending which you decide is the main route makes the remaining two what If stories. In Fate he is withered, if say what if he was alive then we get HF. HF is evidence that if the guy is alive then HF will result. Especially in Fate, Shirou constantly nags Shinji about Sakura inside Zouken's own home. Im sure you can agree that Zouken acts in HF because he has the knowledge of Shirou's connection to Sakura. The scene in the house in Fate proves their connection wayyyy more than Shirou simply walking Sakura home in HF. So Zouken alive in Fate would make the Fate Route impossible because he would act on his "perfect" experiment and the route would turn into HF. Having him alive in Fate is a plothole, so to avoid the plot hole he must be dead.