[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by Renall

This is how I'd put things:

"is dead": The person is dead at least as of the time of the red announcement. Thus "Kinzo is dead" is equivalent to "Kanon is dead" even if Kanon died just now and Kinzo's been dead a year. This doesn't preclude any reason for death, like accidents or natural causes, unless Beatrice adds more to it.

"killed": A human being (or possibly an animal) caused the death of the person by some affirmative act. The important thing here is they didn't necessarily have to intend to do it, and they didn't necessarily have to mean for the person to die. Of course, it also encompasses intentional killings.

"murder": A human being killed the person intentionally and with the desire that the person die. There are other legalese definitions of murder but I think this is the one Beatrice means. If a person was murdered, note, their death cannot be an accident or unintended. If Kumasawa tripped and fell down the stairs, she cannot have been murdered; if Kumasawa was pushed down the stairs, it may not be murder (if it was a bump or something); if someone decided to kill Kumasawa by pushing her down the stairs, THAT is murder.

Note that a consequence of this is that "x did not commit murder!" does not mean "x did not kill anyone!" It just means they didn't kill anybody intentionally.

Oh, and I wouldn't personally define a self-defense killing as "murder." However, Beatrice might. I'm not sure.

I'm not sure about your definition of "killed". I think natural events should be included. It is perfectly okay to say that a person has been killed by a thunder or by a landslide. If we accept your definition the last Beatrice's riddle cannot be explained with anything but humans and animals.

Originally Posted by lovelysan

I notice that in regards to motives, a lot of you are being too "easy" on the kids. This is mostly due to us knowing their personalities more, but still.....

POTENTIAL motives: (by "potential" I mean, if we didn't know this kids personally, but more as possibilites if we just know "situations.")

George: 6th in line to be the head. He would benifit the most (probably)from the death of both Krauss and Jessica. Deaths of Eva, Rudolph and Rosa would also be benificial towards succession. May hold a grudge against his mother for opposing his relationship with Shannon.***

Jessica: Resents her parents (in a sort of normal teenage way though.) 5th in line to be head. She would directly benefit if Krauss, Eva, Rudolph and Rosa died.
HOWEVER- She also doesn't have much interest in becoming head of the family in all. In that case, she would sort of benifit for a dissolution of the "Ushiromia family" in general.

Battler: Holds a grudge against his father for Asumu's death. Kyrie is the woman his father was having an affair with while still married to his mother (probably.) So "revenge" is a motive.
Is the seventh in line to be family head. So he would benifit from the deaths of George, Jessica and all of the parents. (but at that point, if only those people died, he would be suspicious as all get out XD....)

Maria: (the only one who is really "too young" to be a mastermind ^^; .) Holds grudge against mother. All the other parents tend laugh at her.
Oh, but if someone else wanted her to be heir, that person would need to kill the parents, and the other cousins (Including Ange? Technically, Ange is higher ranked than Maria.....)



**** A note about George.
.... okay, more like a crazy ass theory....

Spoiler for Crazy theory for epi I fun fun time 8D .:

IF Eva had killed Hideyoshi, for... uh, whatever reason , the hot water in the shower can actually affect rigor mortis, thereby confusing the exact time of death. She then could of faked her own death when everyone else came in the room.
If this was the case, one of the people who could of then ACTUALLY have killed her would be George. He ran directly to her bed when he saw her "body" and was there for a bit whilst everyone else was freaking out with shock.
He could of taken this moment to have killed the faking Eva with a hidden syringe or something.
Reason? Maybe it was planned by Eva, Hideyoshi and George to kill those in direct line to leadership of the family. Shannon wasn't SUPPOSED to come to the main house, but she did go and she got killed by Eva out of necessity for just seeing too much.

Knowing the basic plan and going along with it, George snaps when he discovers that Shannon got killed as well.

....Main problem with this theory is that it doesn't really explain why Hideyoshi had to die >_> .....

Even crazier theory about George:
-George gives the ring to Shannon
-Eva sees him and goes berserk
-George kills Eva, but there are witness so George needs to kill them all
-However at this point George knows that the police would find him so he needs to create an "unfortunate incident" to cover everything up.
-Of course everyone must die for that".
-So George kills everyone but then he says: where's Kanon?!
-and so Shannon says: "It's me I'm actually Kanon, I like to dress in drag!"
-George kills Kanon and then he kills himself
-When the seagulls cry no one is left alive

Jokes apart I think there is a possibility that Jessica and Maria are the masterminds of this tragedy at least partially, but the fully explain I'd have to think they got the servants in it as accomplices. Jessica being Beatrice can explain a lot of things about the mariage sorciere.

On semantics. I agree with everyone that if we start using semantic as way to destroy the red truth then we are back to square one without any ground to create our theory from. However

-I am the Golden Witch Beatrice. And I opened this game in order to fight with Ushiromiya Kinzo's grandson, Ushiromiya Battler.
-This is my Golden Land. A world where any magic other than my own definitely cannot exist.
-With my magic, Sakutarou could not be revived.

If we don't start talking about semantics we can give up to the witch already.