Thread: Licensed Girls und Panzer
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Old 2013-03-14, 09:45   Link #4644
Wild Goose
Truth Martyr
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Doing Anzu's paperwork.
Age: 32
Well, I'm glad that this disagreement and discussion is still cordial

Originally Posted by willx View Post
So, here's IXJac's statement above:
1) They can stop the exercise!! -- No, they cannot, they were in a match. They lacked that authority. I don't even know if they could call for a stop to the match but the match based on the portrayal in the show was not stopped. This was not their decision to make. The Senshado organization did not stop the match. Either 1) because there was no real danger, 2) the danger is considered acceptable or 3) Senshado matches are simply not stopped?
Y'know, I'd actually forgotten that. This does, however, raise certain questions on how senshado matches are run, because as we see in other sporting events, like football, or Formula One, as soon as there's an accident a temporary halt is called, though it does take some time to get things settled down.

If I really wanted to be mean, I could theorize that the refs would have called a halt to the match, but Katyusha shot the flag tank just before the time out was called, so her win slipped by due to luck.

2) Because of #1 above, people are attributing to Shiho and Miho respectively "Ruthlessness/Bloodthirst" and "Heroism" -- but why is this applied to the characters when they have no control over the situation? If anything the factum is that it is the "Senshado" organization that did not stop the match. The premise people assume is that people were in danger .. and even if they were or were not, Miho still acted recklessly as my statements above and previous (including factual discussions on tank hatches, underwater cars, etc.) As for "crystal ball" - this is addressed somewhat in IXJac's paragraph 2, which I will now address in point #3.
You're partially right in that #1 is influencing viewers, but also note that later at home Shiho strongly disagrees with Miho's choice to prioritise her subordinates over securing victory, and emphasises that whole victory at any cost mindset. Like I said, this is a paradigm that encourages ruthlessness.

3) You don't know if you can help but you should go see anyways!! -- Whoa, hold on there partner, as the leader of the platoon you must make calm impartial decisions. Running into help in an unnecessary circumstance will -- 1) disrupt the chain of command and 2) could potentially make things worse. From what we saw portrayed, Miho, upon seeing the tank go under jumped out of her tank and dived into the water. Her crew did nothing. No one else did anything. She left the chain of command absolutely paralyzed and dove underwater. Do I need to finish my thought? She could have drowned? She could have added to the lives needing to be rescued? One tank already fell into the water .. her abandoning her tank could have made the situation much much much worse. All we can assess is what we are shown on screen and any person looking at it coldly and dispassionately can see it was not decision making and leadership at it's finest.
I think there are several points of failure you've brought up, which I agree on: Miho should have made a "noduff" call (as the Brits term it), before going to help, and she should have had her crew report to the refs on the sitrep. On the other hand, following her, we can't exactly say that the chain of command was paralyzed. The flag tank holds position, true, but one of the trailing tanks immediately moves forward and tries to overtake it to cover it - it's just bad luck for them that Katyusha showed up first and nailed the flag tank. That doesn't seem like they're too paralyzed. Again, as we follow Miho, we can't be sure that her crew didn't report the emergency to the refs. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, afterall. ;D

I am not debating ideals here folks -- I am discussing the facts of the matter as portrayed on a screen. It is unclear from the footage and dialogue that Miho was effective at all. If anything, based on my recollection, the only time I heard that Miho actually "saved" anyone was one of her current teammates at Oorai saying: "I'm sure they're happy you tried to save them."
You're forgetting that same girl who she saved coming up to her and thanking her for the rescue. That's pretty persuasive evidence that Miho was right to act as she did.

That said, I admit that my approach was on the different paradigms, as I saw that to be the root causes. *shrugs*

tl;dr -- People are forming opinions about Shiho and Miho's personality based on their own presumptions of this incident but failing to comprehend that the connection is tenuous at best or that if interpreted differently then those opinions would be invalidated. I will admit here that I could very well be wrong. The next episodes may show Shiho standing up proclaiming: "Victory at all cost! I don't care if you girls die!" -- but somehow I doubt that. Same with Miho being a perfect depiction of a hero.
I don't really think it's that cut and dried as to whether they're heroes and villains, but again the way I saw this issue was a clash of paradigms. And not whether a hatch could be opened or not; that's a symptom. A cough, if you will, while the underlying paradigm is the lungs weakened by asthma.

Also, I must say, it's been a pleasure to have such a cordial discussion. ^_^
One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine.

I believe in miracles.

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