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Originally Posted by Renall

Granted, I rather like the idea of Yasu being some random orphan (although when I suggested it, it was more that the baby actually did die), but there are two points that make this more of an issue than just writing it off as a fabrication:

• In the guts scene, there's certainly an implication of Kinzo making a move on his daughter.
• In Battler's game, both Kinzo and Battler refer to Beatrice as the witch's granddaughter like this is totally something they both know for sure. Nobody has any doubts about it.

Granted, you can get out of #1 in several ways (she wasn't actually his daughter, he did make a move but the real baby was killed and replaced by an orphan, etc.), and #2 by claiming that Battler/Tohya/whoever doesn't know any more about the truth of Yasu's lineage than Yasu does, so his claim of certainty is just part of his world. Still, there are some clear stumbling blocks.

That said, it's supported, at least: Kinzo's entire motivation for the epitaph seems to be to find his missing heir who he is quite sure is "Beatrice." He seems crazy enough to recognize anybody who does this as Beatrice whether it's a reliable association or not; granted, he thinks Yasu looks like her, but let's be honest, Yasu can't IRL look anything like Beatrice or everybody would notice including Battler. So more likely than not his thought process boils down to "solved epitaph and is the right age and isn't one of my other kids or grandkids == my long-lost kid." All Genji has to do is nudge somebody toward that, which he does with Yasu. There's nothing to suggest that Yasu had any inherent advantage solely because of blood or anything, since the epitaph is a strictly intellectual thing. In fact, she was at a distinct disadvantage compared to Kinzo's children, in that she didn't know about the Taiwan thing until Genji dropped the hint.

Also if Yasu isn't Lion then that explains the ep7 thing where Shannon and Kanon can't be in the same place but Lion can be in the same place as either of them, though that's pretty weak as a claim given the nature of that board. So one could argue that there was no baby, or the original baby (Lion) died, and that Yasu is a random replacement who happened to be of the right disposition and such to be chosen by Genji to fill the role. It's a devil's proof, it's unfalsifiable based on the information that we know.

On the other hand, she was always given special treatment from the start. Granted, Yasu could just be sort of retroactively trying to justify her own specialness by believing that the reason she had special treatment was because of who she is, and not that she simply got lucky to be about the same age as Jessica. It could also be handwaved away as Genji planning for the long-term to give Kinzo mounting "evidence" that his child has secretly come back. There's also the apparent "confession" from Nanjo and Genji, although again we don't know what was said specifically and whether it was true (not like Nanjo can't be paid to lie). Since we know so little about Genji and even less about his recent motivations, it's impossible to say for sure what he was even trying to do. As people have pointed out, if Yasu is the child, then Genji's actions are reckless and grossly irresponsible, and we have no clear understanding of why he did what he did outside of a vague sense that he was trying to do this for Kinzo's sake. Maybe.

I guess the biggest issue is whether Shannon/Kanon look anything like Kinzo or Beatrice at all. If they looked like Beatrice, surely someone would point out the similarity at some point or Battler would find her face familiar. If they looked like Kinzo, well... seems like that would be hard to hide, given that the family thinks Battler looks like Kinzo did as a young man, so they must know what Kinzo looked like at a younger age. You'd think someone would've caught on. Orphan-Yasu would entirely escape notice because she in fact does not resemble any of the others. But it also isn't impossible for a child not to resemble either of his or her parents.

If we've to go through this tangent we can say the gut scene didn't necessary prove Kinzo slept with Beato, just that he declared his feelings toward her and she refused. Kinzo was insistent, Beato was unconfortable, she complained with Kumasawa and then Beato escaped with Rosa. And died.

It's also possible to assume that Beato was Beatrice's daughter but Beatrice could have conceived her with an Italian officer, which would explain why, to Kinzo, she looks so much like her mother. Since often foreigns look all the same if Beatrice resembles her mother and doesn't have Japanese features she can look completely like her mother to Kinzo after so many years he's also not seeing the original Beatrice.

Kinzo might be unaware she's not his daughter or might know but decided to pretend he doesn't as he doesn't like the idea the first Beato might have loved another man and raised second Beato as his daughter.

However, when he fall for her, he might have decided that, since she wasn't really his daughter, it was okay to court her. Not that it matters for Beato since, regardless of Kinzo telling her the truth or not, she views him like a father figure and not like a lover.

As for Yasu resembling Beato... she was dressed up like her, was wearing a wig and make up. And Kinzo was old, probably sick, with not so much time to live. It was night and we don't know how well the place was lighted but, more important, Kinzo wanted to believe she was Beatrice.
Maybe even if Genji had dressed up like Beato he would have believed him to be Beatrice.
After all if we compare Yasu's behavious in that scene it doesn't seem to match with Beato 1 at all and it doesn't match well with Beato 2 either.

The real problem is the red that comes after.

"Why...?!! Why did you save me?! Why didn't you let me die?! Because of that terrible injury, ......I've been forced to live in a body like this!! I never wanted to live in a body like this!! This body that isn't even capable of love......!! What's...what's the point in living like that?! This isn't a human's life...!! It's like being furniture!!"
"That's right, I'm...furniture...!! Furniture...!! Why......why didn't you let me die back then?!! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh......!!!"

Of course Yasu's world might not necessarily mean what they seem. The injury she speak about can be something she received not by the fall from a cliff but by... something else. and the fact that they saved her might also refer to something different (ex: she tried to commit suicide due to her condition but they saved her).

Or it can be a truth of the gameboard and therefore not be related to Prime.

Still, it's the hardest point to wave away.

Originally Posted by Drifloon

But if Yasu isn't really the baby, then why was she made a servant at such a young age at all? They make a big deal out of how weird and unprecedented that is.

Well, it can be that Natsuhi was right and Kinzo wanted to give a playmate to Jessica. LOL, it can even be that Yasu was Genji's secret baby or the baby of someone he knew and wanted to help so he asked Kinzo to hire Yasu.

Honestly I would have preferred if Yasu wasn't Kinzo's child considering she ends up being forced to work as a maid at such a young age in the house in which she was supposed to become the head.
Instead, if she wasn't Lion, I could accept more easily how Genji thought it was okay to have her working as a maid for the Ushiromiya.

Also, if she really somewhat resemble Beatrice, she's defined a girl and work as maid for the Ushiromiya, it's way more easy for Kinzo to persuade himself she's Beato reincarnated and make a move on her and in her condition it would be even harder for her to refuse him. Considering he said he hid her because he feared this... hiring her it's like if he handed her to Kinzo on a silver platter.

Originally Posted by Renall

[*]Genji was running a long game, and needed a servant who would be around for quite a while. Yasu was picked not because of who she is, but who Genji wants people to think she is.[/list]Orphan-Yasu basically can get around the awkwardness of how Nanjo could possibly be competent enough to perform even a botched sex-reassignment surgery as well, and would lend a different color to that entire scene: Discovering that the baby was a boy, she confronts Genji and Nanjo about it, and they insist that she totally was a boy one time, for real, trust us, but Nanjo had to change it because um your injury. It strikes me as the sort of ludicrous lie that someone backed into a corner would make up, but Yasu wouldn't exactly have much reason to doubt it. On the other hand, it's one of those "too ludicrous to be a lie" situations too.

THIS. I also found rather hard to believe how Nanjo could perform such operation. Of course Nanjo could have kept Lion alive then handed her/him to another bribed doctor who performed the operation then they send her to Fukuin.
Still this would require to have another doctor involved in a sex reassignment surgery... it'll be interesting if the manga were to show us there's such a person.

Still... why to lie to Yasu as Kinzo dies short after? If Yasu were to claim to be Lion Natsuhi and the other siblings would, for sure, check if she really is who she claims to be or not. Unless Genji plans to blackmail Natsuhi, who knows the baby was a male, into silence due to her guilt?

LOL, Will wouldn't be happy with me but evilmastermind Genji is a fun theory!

Originally Posted by Renall

That said, it seems highly likely there actually was a baby as otherwise everything Natsuhi is feeling guilty about doesn't exist, and that guilt must come from somewhere. As I said, likely and probably intended, but it's odd that he's left enough of a gap to doubt by being so vague. And the existence of a baby doesn't necessarily mean Yasu was the baby. After all, Yasu can never know that.

Well, we can't actually prove Natsuhi was feeling guilty out of the gameboard or that she was feeling guilty due to the baby. She might have argued with the servant and pushed her off the cliff and in the whole story there was no baby, just Natsuhi killing a person.