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Originally Posted by musouka
Uh, that's exactly what she does. Whenever she worries about something, it is inevitably about how that will affect other people's views of her, in addition to the problems of other people.
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Altruism isn't about worrying about anything, altruism is about _helping_ others. If you feel like giving evidence that considering things like "what will others think" ever precluded Hina from _doing_ something and helping people, go ahead. The single time in the show where she initially implicitly refused a help request was when she bullied Hayate back after the sports meet for trapping her on the bridge. And even there, she went to help him anyways on her own volition.
Sorry, your attempted characterization is simply unfair. Hina consistently tries to do the right thing, and it's NOT always about her, and most definitely even fewer about her own wishes. Calling her of all people "self-centered" is silly.
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What you see as altruism, I see as a certain form of (understandable) cowardice. Even her line about "tears underneath the mask" is ultimately self-serving in addition to being painful and sad.
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Cowardice? The girl has a conscience and is grappling with her emotions, and based on that she's trying to do the right thing. Her self-reflection DID allow her to realize her betrayal of Ayumu and to apologize for it (something which Athena never had the guts for). It wasn't easy for her, but she did it.
Self-serving? She was answering Isumi's question, after she purposely drew her away to leave Hayate and Athena alone. Calling this act self-serving is so obviously absurd that it's staggering. It's not Hina who is self-serving, and who is wallowing in self-pity unless others save her behind. That's Athena's specialty.
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Athena isn't altruistic, and I would never claim she was. What she does have is a certain honesty about herself that Hina lacks. Athena makes sense to me.
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Athena has two priorities: Herself, and Hayate. The latter primarily as means to take away HER loneliness. And she's pursuing these priorities very honestly. Agreed so far.
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When she thinks that she causes Hayate pain, she distances herself from him and tries to stay out of his life. Isn't that what any good person would do if they honestly thought they would hurt the person they love?
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Pre-expulsion as kids, she had no problems causing Hayate pain when she thought it was "better" to do so. She tried to meld Hayate into HER perfect companion. She threw him out when he dared to oppose and deny her. After he had gone, her primary focus was "Uuu, I AM ALONE AGAIN" (reinforced yet another time in c262). After she found him again 10 years later, she didn't come clean, but rather decided to "stay away". When she learned that Hayate was trying to see her, she had Machina beat him bloody. Hum...
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When she thinks about how she could take advantage of the situation by stealing the stone and making Hayate lose his job, she's also overcome with disgust at herself.
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...and then she still goes on to do it anyway. That's the point. But I guess that was all just Midas' doing. Convenient to have an evil side to deal with the blame.
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She has her moments of weakness, but genuinely puts Hayate's happiness over her own. I don't see how that can be denied.
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Pre-expulsion, I don't think I can agree with that. Later, after she found him again, she stayed away - let's be gracious and list that as evidence for your position. And I certainly don't doubt that she does care for Hayate's happiness, I wouldn't want to contest that.
But let's look at Hina and Athena at the catharsis: Hina acts, because her first priority is undoubtedly to save Hayate. She had convinced Hayate first to see Athena, and now she's there to free his back, sending him to save Athena in the fight. At the end of the fight it pains her to see Hayate in Athena's arms, and she's crying over it. Yet, she does what she believes the right thing to do, and is drawing Isumi away to leave the two of them time for each other.
Now Athena: She deeply regrets that she "always causes Hayate pain". So, to put an end to this, she wants to unsummon herself and King Midas to save Hayate and all the others (but then, she doesn't). In the middle of the battle all she can think about is about HER and Hayate, how she wants to touch him, but is afraid of hurting him again. But NEVERTHELESS... she wants to touch him. She wants to hear him call her name. "HAYATEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!"
Athena is talking the talk, but ultimately sticks with what SHE really wants. Hina is walking the walk and ultimately goes with what she believes to be the right thing to do, even if it's the opposite of what she wants. Guess that's what's making Hina "cowardly" and "self-centered" (your words)
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I'm really going to need you to explain this insistance on Athena as being completely self-centered, because I don't see it.
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Then you can't be looking very hard. See above. Also, didn't you just translate chapter 262 by yourself? (thanks for that, btw) It's hilarious if you list all lines of Athena (spoilered for brevity, the first 13 pages). As an exercise, mark those lines with "I", "my", or are immediately describing HER situation.
Keep in mind, self-centered was the word _you_ picked out first. It describes EXACTLY what I dislike about Athena. She has the strong tendency to relate whatever happens to HER. I don't doubt that she's hurting over causing Hayate pain, but you don't read lines like "I'm sorry that I threw you out of your home", she says "I'm alone again... forever". She doesn't say "You must be hurting out alone", she says "It's all my fault, I broke it".
If you still can't see it, I doubt you ever will.