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Originally Posted by qno2
Alright, then it was just a semantic issue between us. Yes, sure, he 'challenged' her, but I didn't view them as 'opponents'. To me it seemed more like an adult trying to help a child understand something, giving it a 'challenging' problem to solve so to speak. But the jump between 'challenging someone' and 'opposing' isn't too big I suppose.
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Yes, in the end Battler had a gentler approach even if in the beginning he wasn't exactly kind to Beato.
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Originally Posted by qno2
We could actually assume that this "duel" happens every time. Shannon was the first to go in EP1 after all, in EP3 both lose at the start, ...
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Yes, but, apart from EP 6 Kanon is always more unsure and reluctant than Shannon even if he technically has the advantage of being with Jessica much more than Shannon so I think, unless they were given much more time or something were to change, if Battler doesn't do something, is Shannon the one that wins.
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Originally Posted by qno2
Very interesting read for latter: EP2, Meta-Scene in Natsuhi's Room - you can read this scene as Beatrice accusing Shannon that she just wanted to fulfill her sexual desires instead of prevailing and waiting for her "true love" to come back. And the result... Will: "Nobody would argue that a coffin is a closed room."
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It's a very interesting interpretation and this make interesting Shannon's answer about wanting to have the fulfillment of at least hearing she was loved. In the same way Beato also played on Yasu's fears, telling Shannon that men are interested only in a woman's body.
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Originally Posted by qno2
That approach bears the very question of who the author of Reqiuem is. For Lion's world to say anything relevant to prime Tohya would need to be the one. Considering the end of that story however that seems unlikely (ah well, I'll still believe in the possible implications even though I basically denied them myself in this very moment, talk about seeing it with love and all). Unless someone else writes more stories about Lion it simply won't be possible to find a written account on them, even if a search engine like Bernoogle looks for it. However, since goats are only interested in the mystery anyway, you'd be correct of course.
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A favourite theory of mine is that Ep 7 represents Battler who solved the game and learnt the truth from Yasu (there are facts that it would be difficult to guess without Yasu confessing them).
As I'm among the Ikuko=Yasu believers I like for it to also represent the fact that it was Toya to be more exact who solved again the game which is why in the whole Umineko we have Battler who remembered and solved it and then Will, an outsider, who solved it (Toya doesn't think to himself as Battler anymore).
Of course it's possible that both Toya and Battler solved it but the Yasu part doesn't come from Ikuko but by Battler's memories of what Yasu told him.
The Tea Party though represent the new theory who's taking shape among the witch hunters, in short the Rudolf&Kyrie culprit theory, which is what is tearing apart Ange (which in fact get destroyed after the 'play').
Clair doll-like state might represent how people are 'using her' to tell this culprit theory. In short it wasn't her will that made her tell that story but someone else's.
Lion's 'death' is both nice and not nice as I said before. It 'proves' it wasn't Battler or Beato's fault if people die but, at teh same time, support the Kyrie&Rudolf culprit theory.
Will's attempt to resque Lion might represent Toya refusing to abandon himself to the idea that the tragedy was unavoidable due to the grown up malice (in short he denies that, if Lion's fate is to die, it wouldn't be due to the grown up killing him).
In a way his attempt to save Lion mirrors Battler's attempt to escape with Beato, only it's more dramatic. Either way no couple will reach the real world.
It's all very metaphoric though and mine is only one of the many possible interpretations.
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Originally Posted by qno2
edit: Maybe I can still save my beliefs. Yes. Everyone, take your hands and chant. Of course it's possible Tohya wrote EP7 but not the TP (+ Lion's bad ending), since "there is no game-master". Heck yeah, arguing without any basis, disregard this please.
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Well, it's more or less what I also think as you could read (I really should read the whole message before start replying to it... ^_^;;
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Originally Posted by qno2
If I had more faith in my writing abilities (in english to boot) I'd actually try my hand at a "Battler remembers" + "Nervous Wreck Battler" forgery in accordance to the known results of Prime (2 survivors: Eva, Battler). Don't think I'll get around to it very soon (if at all) though. Having two murder games actually solves the biggest issue I had before when trying to think up a "Nervous Wreck Battler" story - how to cause the actual chaos after Battler snaps.
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On a general line I tend to think it was the adults who snapped and not Battler, though he too is a possibility.
However Prime is well closed in Ryukishi's catbox so all the speculations over it are fair game.