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Old 2018-06-06, 05:38   Link #64
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv175
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 33
Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde View Post
I really don't see how it is self sustaining. When future SERN informed present SERN about the time machine, the only reason present SERN would have info about the time machine is from future SERN, and thus if future SERN had no way to learn about it, then no matter what logic the present SERN maintain, they cannot arrive at the time machine theory by themselves. Even if present SERN already knows the theory, the fact that Kurisu is what made it possible still remains.
That's why I said it becomes a loop paradox.
If the present SERN learns about the time machine from the future SERN, this means that the present SERN CAN sustain this logic by creating the time machine and send an agent back to keep the consistency.
We are in a world line logic, not time line logic: the fact future sern would not learn about the time machine with the first D mail doesn't change anything because the convergence would keep the logic flow with the present SERN maintaining it by developping the time machine in the future, and send that information back to themselves. As such, the first d-mail is completely disconnected in the causality for SERN developping the time machine. It is the same reason why Mayuri still dies even if Okarin prevents the rounders raid, because Mayuri still can die from other causes, as long they are in the alpha attractor field.

That's why I'm mentioning the lab member badge: by interacting with the past regarding a certain information, its origin changes and it becomes self sustained. Because of this, if SERN ever learns about the time machine from the future, it means destroying the "original" source will not affect it one bit because the causality was completely changed.
In other world, the future would change: SERN learning the time machine from their future self, mean they create the time machine much earlier than already occured. Because of this, they already established their dystopia and can send again the information to their past self. Because of this, the first D mail has no relevancy to this matter anymore.

Also, this is heavily contradictory with SG0 considering how the beta worldline shifted to the alpha world line.

I also don't see why the first D-mail couldn't be the only origin of SERN completing the time machine by capturing them.
In fact, you didn't explain why they -need- that information from the future to make it work at all.

And I'd say they would if they could, but convergence means they cannot die, thus capture is the only option.
Convergence means the actions would have been prevented by the world itself. Yet, Moeka explicitely stated they are going to capture them. They didn't try to kill them at all. In fact, Moeka shouldn't even know "she can't kill them" because of the convergence since she doesn't have any RS.
You still didn't address the evidence regarding Kurisu's involvement with the time machine with what Suzuha stated. This practically means SERN need them, not that they are already done with the time machine.
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