[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Shadow5YA

Sounds a little pedantic to me. Both Kiroumaru and Squealer know how to speak human language as well. I guess they're two peas in a pod then, huh?

Nobody said they're "two peas in a pod".

What some of us have pointed out is that there are notable similarities between Kiroumaru and Yakomaru. That doesn't mean they're "two peas in a pod", but it does mean that they're not complete opposites either.

The fact that they are dishonest when the situation calls for it is a shallow similarity considering how many circumstantial lies multiple characters have made in the series.

That's not the main similarity I was focusing on. The main similarity I was focusing on was both of them wanting to procure WMDs to use against humans. In my view, that's a very significant similarity. It shows that neither trusts humans much, and that neither can be fully trusted by humans.

In fact, it suggests that if circumstances were just slightly different, Kiroumaru could have conceivably been doing much the same thing as what Yakomaru is doing now - Using a WMD to indiscriminately kill humans and/or destroy their villages.

Are you telling me every character in the series is the same just because they are capable of lying for their own self-interest?

No, I'm not saying that. Why do you go for this false dichotomy of "not at all similar" and "everybody the same"? There's a middle ground between these two extremes, and I'm merely pointing to that middle ground.

His soldiers put their own lives on the line to protect Kiroumaru in the same way Inui died to protect Saki. Unless you are telling me Saki doesn't care about others either, you are wrong.

Where did I say that Kiroumaru "doesn't care about others" at all? I simply said that protecting others isn't Kiroumaru's top priority. And it isn't, or he wouldn't have taken the risks that he did, all for the sake of acquiring WMDs.

Originally Posted by Kirarakim

And what makes you think he wasn't being honest here?

I never said he was being dishonest. You can sweeten the truth without being dishonest. Contrary to popular belief, politicians do tell the truth sometimes. Sometimes they simply put the sweetest possible spin on the truth, but it's still not technically a lie.

You don't see the irony of him talking about "human rights" when he lobotomizes his own queen. Certainly her rights did not matter.

Your country and mine recognizes human rights. That doesn't mean we're going to stand by and do nothing if a person goes batshit insane and tries to kill people.

I don't see how you can say only Yakomaru's had necessity on his side. Kiroumaru was looking for the weapons in case his tribe was in danger. I don't see how that is not a necessity.

What indication was there that the humans had any intention of attacking Kiroumaru's tribe?

Be careful here - If your argument is that the humans were so arbitrary or whimsical in their decisions to wipe out Queerat tribes that they simply couldn't be trusted, then that adds a great deal of credibility to Yakomaru's actions as well.

I am not really sure why you think that makes them different. So what you are saying as long as Kiroumaru is loyal to humans even if it means he would betray his own kind that makes him different from Yakomaru.

He didn't have to betray his own kind in order to be loyal to humans. Or, to put it another way, he didn't have to be disloyal to humans in order to be faithful to his own kind. There's no indication that the two were in conflict.

Actually no I am not wrong, rewatch the episodes and see how Yakomaru would say things like "how the gods are above us", and "how dare they do that to the gods" "we would never lie to the gods".

Kiroumaru might have called the humans gods, might have shown them respect, but he never outright lied to them.

"What gall you have to lie in front of gods! Perhaps I should rip your filthy mouth open!" - Kiroumaru to Yakomaru, Episode 17

"I am deeply ashamed I could not do as promised." - Kiroumaru to Saki, Episode 17

Kiroumaru is clearly leading the humans to believe that he is entirely loyal to them. Look, that is deceitful on his part unless he really is entirely loyal to the humans.


To be fair, Yakomaru has definitely done some monstrous and horrible things. But now it sounds like Kiroumaru was at the very least contemplating the same. I think that Kiroumaru is somewhat more noble and trustworthy than Yakomaru, but I also think both men are hard-boiled pragmatists. It might be nice if Saki wasn't the only idealist in this work (especially since she's probably going to win in the end). Yakomaru will dress up his pragmatism in sugary language, and Kiroumaru will try to make his pragmatism sound "honourable" (and in Kiroumaru's case, I think he has himself convinced of it too), but both men are willing to crack a lot of eggs to make omelettes, if you catch my drift.