[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Geta Boshi

* Ichigo with his mask time its safe to say is the weakest of Vizards again using him or epitomizing him as the Vizard is wrong. Let’s talk about Shinji in my books pawned GJ . In the manga, it was Shinji 1 GJ 0 minus the flashy moves given to him in the anime. Also there NO a$$ whooping in the manga during Ichigo Vs GJ 1. Ichigo was beaten badly but not whooped.

Exactly, the anime makes the fights much more severe and one-sided than they are in the manga. Especially Shinji vs. GJ imo. In the manga, Shinji barely does anything more than push Grimm back with a cero. And the damage looks more severe because Grimm was all bloody from the Getsuga Tenshou took before that. It was impressive for sure, but a not a thrashing. Shinji had the upper hand for the brief time that they fought. Is that proof he could easily own GJ? Not for me.

Hell, it's been brought up many times before that it looked like Hichigo was about to kill Hiyori the first time they fought and he was just using shikai. Hiyori<Ichigo? No. She beat the snot out of him while they were training.

* Shinji may not even have a shikai : It’s funny how people forget the whole Hollow training . So seriously after seeing how hard hollow submission does driving your zanpakuto into submission seem harder .

True, you can't say the vizard don't have shikai (even though only one has shown his release) But what about assumptions that the vizard were all maxed-out uber shinigami who all had bankai before becoming vizard? That should mean the majority of them were former captains in SS. These guys, they are outcasts...punks. Other than maybe Shinji and Hacci, they haven't shown anything that makes me think they have the experience of very high ranking shinigami, unlike Urahara or Yoruichi.

I think they rely on their masks for the bulk of their power. Not their natural skills as shinigami. If turning an adjuchas or gillian (who naturally are maybe at the strength of a SS vice-captain or less) into an arrancar can put them at the level of a SS captain, then turning into a vizard should do the same for a low-level or average shinigami, after the fully master their hollow.

Ask yourself this Controlling Hollow / Controlling Zanpakuto, which is more brutal and harder

That depends on the strength of the hollow don't you think? For Hiyori and Ichigo it was a grueling task. For the racer chick, it was no sweat.

Originally Posted by Bocca

And their purpose still isn't clear.
I was hoping that Aizen would be beat and the real enemy would be the Vizard group.

I seriously doubt as a group that the vizard are evil. But I definitely wouldn't count out the possibility that one or more of them could turn out to be villains. They are afterall, renegades. Just having them turn out to be just extra allies for the good guys would be boring.