[Cherry_Lover]

Originally Posted by alumnox

As I said, maybe not the rape part. They don't share the method but they are well aware about each others capabilities, forte and so on and they know this even before the creation of the first grail. Its exactly the reason why all the knowledge they have from everybody that the Einzbern`s invite the matou and the Tohsaka to help them with the first grail.

Well, I don't think it's clear that he knew the details of how Zouken's magic works, but transplanting a crest into someone is painful even if they are from your family (as Rin could testify), so I don't see how he could honestly believe that Sakura would be OK with a crest from an entirely different family.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

2. I don't like the seeming lack of variety amongst the competing masters so far. They're all adult men so far (Waver is only 19, but he's basically an adult). Furthermore, even their personalities do not appear that diverse from one another (this episode in fact goes to great lengths to demonstrate how very similar two competitors in particular are). One of the strengths of Fate/Stay Night, in my view, was just how diverse - in age, gender, personality, and goals - the various Masters were in that narrative. It gave a nice array of competing perspectives and personality types, serving as a catalyst for good character growth and personality clashes. It also added some real color and dynamism to Fate/Stay Night, imo.

I'm not sure if Gen was locked into using these particular characters based on established Fate/Stay Night lore, but if not, I have to really question why he'd go with such a seemingly non-diverse cast on the Master side.

That's part of the point, I think. All the masters in this war are "professionals" (except Kariya and Caster's master). They know what they're doing and what they're fighting for. Having them all having diverse personalities and ages would not fit with that, and I don't think that any of the masters would have worked as females, either (Kariya, Tokiomi, Kiritsugu and Kotomine had to be male for the story to work, and I don't think Kaneyth or Caster's master would have worked very well as females due to their character archtype).

Originally Posted by Tiresias

The Matou segments broke my heart into tiny pieces. God, the "this won't end well" foreboding is strong in this one!

Yeah....

;_;

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

Hey, Caster was serious enough. And so was Rin, as long as it didn't directly involve Shirou (as Archer says "My great master becomes immature as soon as you enter the picture") . And of course, Zouken and Kotomine...

Rin is serious, but she doesn't really know what she's doing, because she's still a child. She's torn between her father's wish and her own true nature.

Originally Posted by Clarste

There's no reason to assume that mages are patriarchal. Tokiomi's heir is Rin, and not in a "marry her off to a good family" way. He teaches her magic and expects her to follow in his footsteps. So in that sense it's pretty clear that mages are at least somewhat post-feminist.

How is having a female heir incompatible with being patriarchal? Britain had female monarchs as far back as the 11th or 12th century, and it was still most definitely a "patriarchal" society. All that means is that males are preferred over females.

Also, there were a number of female students in Waver's class, and given how elistist the teacher already is, why would he even bother teaching people who he thought weren't even capable of growing into mages over a few generations?

The Association teaches females, but that doesn't mean they consider them to be equal to males....

So in that sense, having no female Masters from the Magic Society side of things is a bit of a stretch already. Well, that only accounts for 3/7, so it's not too absurd, but saying that it's more realistic to have no women just makes no sense given what we know about mages.

Well, Tokiomi has to be male, because he's male in FSN, and Kaneyth wouldn't work well as a female, IMO, especially in Japanese eyes. Nor, for that matter, would Waver, I suspect, given what happens later.

Originally Posted by Saturn Beaver

Really, I think one must have played or at least watched the FSN anime coming in, otherwise it can be hard to follow, not to mention that they spoil some things already, like the fact that Sakura is Rin's sister and Kiritsugu is Ilya's father.

IMO, even the anime doesn't cover it. You need to have played the game to really understand what is going on. And, as for spoilers, the whole episode is just one big spoiler for the HF route of the game, honestly....

Originally Posted by viperdk1

I wanted to see this to get an indication of what I had been missing out on (as I said, never got around to watching Fate/Stay Night - though that is clearly going to change once F/Z has finished).

You should play the game, not watch the anime. Otherwise you'll end up raging at the way that the anime doesn't deal with half the things brought up in Zero....

Not to mention that the game is far better.

Sakura's fate is utterly horrible - and I already detest Zouken Matou for that very reason.

Yeah....

;_;