[Haak]

Originally Posted by Xagzan

Eh, not really. It introduced all those things, but as I said, didn't develop them in a meaningful, sometimes even consistent way. So the show can't be about, for example, a boy fighting prejudice and finding a place for himself in the world if he only does that for the first four episodes.

I think they all that their effect on the storyline. I think the issue you're having is that you're trying to generalise Eureka Seven Ao into one thing when I really don't think that's what it's about.

It sounds like you're essentially saying a lack of melodrama was a plus for this series, but I'm saying there was largely a lack of any drama, which, yes, you do need in a fictional narrative, otherwise you're not reading/watching/etc a story, but a description or list of events. Without drama, there's just no reason to care about the characters or what's happening to them. The only characters I did care about were Eureka and Renton, and that's because of everything they went through during the first series. You know, the drama.

The drama was there when it needed to be. For example, the scene where an incredibly frustrated Ao points the gun at Truth and truth dares him to shoot in Episode 17. That moment was pretty loaded with drama.

Much like the audience.

Well yeah, that was the idea too. The narrative was structured to that we'd only get the full answer at the end. Everything else was a build up to it. For example, we learned that Eureka came into a different world in the first episodes. We later learn how she disappeared. She later reappears but we don't know why but we find out she's pregnant with a girl and not a boy. We later find out she's trapped in space because of what happened in Okinawa. Then we get a glimpse of what Renton's world looks like. And then finally we're given the big reveals that puts all of it into perspective.

You're awfully generous with your benefit of the doubt distribution. I don't think this was their intent at all, and I'd quicker chalk it up to simple poor writing. Which is to say...

I think you're being awfully harsh. Ao specifically made a point about there really having to be a villian in all of this and the show made a rather stark point that Elena was no one special after all.

Yes, but I am saying that this means there was no point to it. And introducing something that goes nowhere and has no point--that only serves to get the audience excited about what the endless possibilities of what it means, only to have it mean nothing, in the case of theEND, to not use it for any possibility, whether it was one they guessed or not, or, in the case of the Elena reveal, not have impact of any kind upon the plot--isn't a clever "subversion of convention." It's bad writing, and implies they initially wanted to go somewhere with it, but couldn't capitalize on it, and so just ended up stringing the viewer along for no reason.

Unless they replace it with unconventional things which is what they did instead.

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I don't really consider a show with flimsy time travel premises thrown in about 3/4 of the way through and characters whose convictions personalities and goals flip flop faster that Mitt Romney at a debate to be steeped in intellectualism and realism but if that indeed was somehow the goal I don't think they could have possibly missed the mark more with me. I'm also not sure what about this show is supposed to be subtle. Subtle would be the last word I'd use to describe anything about this show post episode 3, what with characters like truth, chloe,elena, that japanese colonel and Joseph pretty much denying the show the subtle label outright. If anything I felt the show needed to tone things down a lot of the time. It wouldnt have helped the incomprehensible narrative problem but it would have helped make the cast a little more relatable.

If you think it's problem was that there was too much drama and over the top then okay, I don't really know what to say to that. Needless to say I don't think it has flimsy time travel premises, and nor do i think characters "flipped flop faster than Mitt Romney" at a debate.