[GundamFan0083]

Originally Posted by Ledgem

The number-one factor in predicting crime is not guns -- or lack of guns. It is concentrated urban poverty. Because of Chicago’s history as a segregated city, we have a lot of that.

With regard to normal, non-insane acts (mass shooters, serial killers, etc), they are probably correct.
If you compare the states with the highest poverty (almost all Southern States), you see higher violent crime rates.
Which is why a state like Vermont has people walking around with guns on their hips, yet low crime compared to a state like Kentucky which forbids such action.

Isn't everything you said based on statistics?

Not everything, much of it is based on the history of which gun laws have passed, and whether or not they achieved the results promised.
Also, I don't put as much weight on the statistics for this issue as I would others due to the politically charged nature of it.
Everyone is manipulating data to "win" the argument, so getting raw, unadulterated data, is difficult.
When such data has been made available, it generally shows that gun bans and other gun control measures do little to nothing to curb crime.
That indicates that these laws are an infringement on people's rights that should not exist.
My position doesn't require detailed statistics to support.
The burden lay with the group that wishes to convince me that I should give up my right to own a specific item for what they percieve as the greater good.
Clearly they haven't proven this poinit since crime has gone down, as has the freqency of mass shootings.
Repeating the same laws expecting a different result is not good public policy.
That's my poiint.
Gun control laws that ban firearms to lower crime aren't working the way they were intended, if at all.

And how do you explain the results with the West and Midwest compared to the Northeast?

The same, most of the wealth in the United States is on the coastal regions. The interior has considerably higher poverty rates, high numbers of illegal aliens, and higher drug related crime.

Poverty in US:


Then we can take the issue of drug gangs in the US and apply that as well.
(Map from the FBI's website):


Compare that to murder rates:


Compared to concentration of minorites:


As you can see, there is a commonality to all of these maps, and firearms has little to do with it.
What it does show is that we need to provide better education, put an end to the drug war to bankrupt the drug gangs, and have a cultural discussion about the violent image our youth find so appealing.
Especially in the "gangska" cultures of our minority communities.
Mindset plays a role in whether or not a person chooses to engage in criminal activity, it isn't always about lack of money and/or poverty (though I would imagine those play a factor).

This cuts both ways. Every time someone wants to commit a crime with a gun and yet is denied a purchase, doesn't try to make a purchase because of the regulations, or has their gun confiscated by the police, we don't hear about it. Crimes that are preemptively prevented before a person can acquire or use a gun won't make it into the statistics or the news, because it's only interesting if some action happens.

Of course it cuts both ways, but we also don't know how many times a criminal simply gets a gun from a mule coming up from Mexico (and it happens).
That's my point, we have so little data on this as to make it laughable to set policy based on these kinds of assumptive statistics.

No, the source is fine. They pull their data from government databases which, while subject to the same imperfections as any database, is likely to be as legitimate as you can find. The issue that they're talking about is the statistics aspect, and they are absolutely correct to have a disclaimer about that.

Your source is a joke site Legem, it's like Wikipedia, it's there for nerds like me and you to have fun.
And it s a fun site, thanks for introducing me to it.

That's going to have to be it for now.
I've got errands to run today.
I know you must be crushed, since you LOOOOVE talking to me so much.