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Old 2012-10-27, 00:58   Link #1349
Quadratic
SIBYL salesman
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
How do you know that? Seriously, what particular scene or character quote makes you think this?
Sorry, but please don't ask "How do you know that?", but ask "What makes you think that?". Of course, I don't know.

Here's my interpretations regarding Sybil itself:
1) Ep 3: "We depend on machines for all the other processes, but the final check still needs to be done by humans, as it's always been.", quoted by the supervisor.
Forgive me for stretching the context of this line beyond the factory, but to me, people still "try" to separate machine judgement from human judgement ("try" being the operative word). And I believe Sybil is a machine. Whether they add their own judgement to the machine's judgement is still up to their discretion. Clearly the supervisor had some idea of what's going on, but because the readings looked "ok", he purposely turned a blind eye (* more on this later in my post). That's his choice. Will he be held accountable in the next episode? I'm banking on no, but we'll wait and see on that issue.
2) The dominator gun doesn't fire on its own, as others have mentioned. This is because it cannot judge the surrounding situation. Again, that's the gun-user's discretion on what action they want to take.
3) Ep 1: "It says that Okura Nobuo is no longer someone who's needed in this world.", quoted by Masaoka. He did not say the law demands him to be killed, only the system calculated he has no more benefit to the world, and rehabilitation won't work on him.
4) Ep 1: "This town's system itself has decided that she's a threat. Think about what that means!", quoted by Masaoka. Again, they're interpreting what it means when the Sybil system called her a threat.

Anyway, I think you're making the same argument as Anh_Minh. That is, your beef is the society built around the Sybil system (which probably makes my whole argument above pointless to make ).
All Sybil's doing is crunching numbers and deciding what the likely outcome will happen. If you want to argue whether a system can crunch numbers to detect latent criminals at a young age, well I'm not sure how the story will be able to prove or disprove it. I'm willing to suspend my belief that the system can, and I'm not sure if that's what issue they want to explore on.
At this point of time, the Sybil's threat detection on the immediate situation has been correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Maybe I missed something, but from what I can tell, it seems entirely possible that there's a highly advanced AI system which has been designed to carefully chart and limit the course of each human's life within the world of Psycho-Pass. Many of its "suggestions" may well be hard-and-fast "law". For example, only those with high potential for multiple disciplines, such as Akane, seem to have much flexibility when it comes to determining their course in life.

Now, of course, you can only blame an AI system so much because it was ultimately designed by humans (or a human, at least). Nonetheless, it's not hard to conceive of an AI that acts as a virtually unquestioned societal Supervisor. For all we know, the Sibyl System may be exactly that (and in fact, the way the characters talk about Sibyl suggests to me that this is what it is).
All inspectors have that choice. Expect a sob-story from Ginoza explaining why he'd trust Sybil over his own and/or Masaoka's judgement.
I believe they're taking the Sybil's data analysis quite seriously and choosing to not question it.
Considering Shinya says, "You were able to put justice before you duty", Ginoza says, "So, you're saying that you made the right decision at the time. Is that your conclusion, Inspector Tsunemori?", I don't see how you can pass this off as merely a rookie mistake of "accidently" questioning Sybil.
It seems every character is aware Akane will question Sybil's "suggestions", but rather than advising her to be careful for choosing such path, a few of them are rooting for her.
Should I start finding quotes from the doctor and Masaoka, to further drive they are allowed to question Sybil suggestions? I think there are a couple in there...

Also, is it actually illegal to employ a latent criminal or just frowned upon? I think this answer will probably prove who's actually correct on the Sybil system.
EDIT: Whoops, I meant to ask whether Sybil decides what to do with latent criminals, or society. But it seems society is the answer, and in fact Kagari was given the choice of isolation or work as a dog. Sybil had no say in whether to expend his life or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
A couple points:
1. There have been AIs in fiction that were capable of emotion. Data and Lore of Star Trek are prominent examples here.

2. Even if Sibyl lacks empathy, maybe people themselves just don't care. Or, in fact, that might be part of the appeal of Sibyl to some folks. In real life, a lot of people think that judges tend to be too lenient when passing out sentences to convicted criminals (and in fairness, there are definitely cases where I can see why people would think that). I can see many people thinking "Finally, a computerized judge that won't be swayed by some bleeding-heart sob story; finally, criminals will get the sentences that they deserve".
1. True, but that's speculation on whether this world has this, and whether Sybil has it. I don't think it does, and there's nothing that suggest as such, at the moment (point it out if it was hinted somewhere).
2. Well yeah, that is kinda the point of Sybil. Remove all bias.

In fact, Sybil seems more like an optimisation tool, (statistically?) determining whether people will benefit to society or not. This is why people argue it's still the user's choice on what to do with such information.
Episode 3 explores the issue with exploiting the Hue assessment for work efficiency. Time, (money?), and resources.
Finding the culprit is a waste of productivity time. Murdered workers are an expendable resource (or in fact, humans in general are considered expendable in this world?). Money...? It's sanctioned by the government and time is money?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
As for Akane not being locked up, maybe the system gives some leeway for raw rookies. Or maybe those with high potential are given certain allowances that others aren't (notice how Shinya's home doesn't seem to have the same neat holographic technology that Akane's does - Is that because Shinya doesn't want it, or is that because the system doesn't deem Shinya as worthy of the same benefits that Akane enjoys?)
I don't think you're talking about the Sybil system here. I don't think it's been implied Sybil system controls the city's finances, residential allocation, etc (but we'll wait and see?). There was a passing mention of a government body (that's why the factory exists in the first place). Society deems latent criminals as low as dogs. Dogs don't need fancy things, and probably considered a waste of money (well, excluding fancy dressed up dogs owned by rich people...).

Speaking of dogs, I saw the mention of Blade Runner as an inspiration, and noticed no animals in this show...Animals are possibly extinct?

Last edited by Quadratic; 2012-10-27 at 01:18.
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