[Toku]

Originally Posted by Renall

The problem is more that I don't think we generally see deceptive first-person narration very often, even in fantasy scenes. So while it's fair game for Battler's piece to tell a lie, there's usually a reason behind it. Our Confessions gives people some kind of reason to lie; Beatrice tells them to as part of a game. Unless a game has already begun at this point (remember, this is like midday on the 4th), and Battler has already been recruited to it, he doesn't have any coherent reason to pretend he saw Kanon and Shannon as distinct entities.

It's one thing to show a scene where Rosa runs away from a demon and then tells Battler that she just ran from a demon (she could just be lying about the prior scene), and another to have Rosa narrate in her own words the experience of running from a demon that didn't ever actually happen, in a situation where Rosa has no reason whatsoever to experience such a thing or pretend she's doing so.

It's a very different kind of lie. There's "fantasy scene backed up by a lie," and then there's "this character is just lying to no one for no reason." Battler's narration is an example of the latter. He's not telling anyone any information, except the player. If Lambda has directed the piece to deliberately lie to essentially himself (this is an internal narration, remember, so it's basically what Battler appears to be thinking, not saying), she's seriously stretching the bounds of good storytelling if not outright breaking them.

And... for what, exactly? To convince Bern and Erika of something they didn't even doubt in the first place?

I'd like to point out that this isn't the only inexplicably odd action Lambda has taken (if indeed she did take this specific action), in EP5.

In previous games, she made it clear that she wants the games to continue on, endlessly. If it ever looks like Beatrice or Battler is going to win, she'll step in, and prevent that from happening.

At some point after Beatrice gave up at the end of EP4... If I remember right, she made a statement that she had thought up another way to have the game continue on endlessly. This led me to believe that EP5 was her gambit to remove the obstacles that stood in the way of her goal.

However, it seems pretty obvious that, should Battler manage to reach the Truth, it will mean that he wins the game. Therefore, Lambda should be acting to prevent this.

On the contrary, she seems to imply in the EP5 Tea Party that this outcome is something she had planned (it's just that it happened sooner than she expected).

Furthermore, there's the fact that, as I had already explained, Lambda appeared to be ready to forfeit the game of EP5 to Bern when Battler arrived, even though she could have easily ripped through these Natsuhi theories.

At a glance, it seems like she made the whole game for the purpose of helping Battler reach the truth, but to be honest, I have no idea. This is further complicated by the fact that Bernkastel is supposed to be the one controlling Piece!Battler at the moment. But most importantly, since I couldn't figure out where to even start in figuring out Lambda's motivations, I had decided to put that on hold, and instead concentrate on what I could more easily reason out.

One thing that we have completely different interpretations of, though, is Piece!Battler's perspective. I'd like to say that he is not necessarily lying to himself, in his own mind. The fact is that, in EP5, Battler's Piece isn't even at Detective status, so he can theoretically be deceived with any illusion the GM comes up with. Therefore, Bernkastel could be having him look around the room and make observations, but Lambdadelta is showing him a scene where both Shannon and Kanon are there at the same time, even though that's not the truth.

Originally Posted by Keriaku

But I'd chalk this up to her arrogance and full reliance on the Detective abilities. Since she used her abilities to gather everyone in the room, she already knows everyone must be there without having to check, so she doesn't.

This much is confirmed in EP6, when she receives confirmation that "everyone else" is in the cousins' room, and this proves to be her downfall.

And I still think that this is something that Beatrice could do, but wouldn't. I'd say that Beatrice probably went out of her way to keep things 'real-world' fair, and didn't do things that would be possible but unrealistic in real life. And really the whole Shkanon thing is pretty much a basic premise of the entire Gameboard. She wanted Battler to figure it out, not expose herself and show it to him as Fantasy 'just because she can'. There is no reason for her to do that. Though for Lambda, who said she was gonna be giving 'super special' hints in her game, understands Beatrice, and chooses to stay neutral, it does make sense for her to do this.

How exactly is it that this scene is giving a hint to Battler?

Or did she do all of this just to confuse him further?