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Old 2013-02-14, 16:20   Link #5904
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
The fact that they're living in Orb should be more than enough indication for other nations. And even there is no indication Kira/Lacus wants to share it, that doesn't excuse Orb from trying. Like I said, the situation Orb is in, you'd think they'd bagger Kira/Lacus for eternity. And yet it wasn't even factored in once.
Cagalli wouldn't allow her brother and Lacus to be bothered, especially for the purpose of Orb deploying nuclear weapons. Beside, NJC was supposed to be banned by the peace treaty.
They still thought only PLANT would be destroyed since they specifically rationalized that it would quickly bring an end to the war, hence why they named it Operation: Peacemaker.
No, like I said, the reason MAD wasn't a factor when EA used nuclear weapons beforehand was because EA didn't believe mutually assured destruction could even happen, not because they didn't care.
That would be true if they had attacked all of PLANTs directly. The fact that they attacked Junius 7 and then Boaz first meant that they lost any element of surprise they might have had.

Your argument simply has no basis in the show. The EA simply no longer care about a possible MAD scenario the moment they decided that they wanted to annihilate the Coordinators and even used nuclear weapons to achieve that.
It must have been if it would force the EA to stop nuclear attacks completely. The first response would typically be to try again, see how they did it and try and find a way to circumvent it. Instead, Jibril went through the effort of making an entirely new, ridiculously huge weapon just for that purpose before trying anything else.
Of course, because the purpose was to annihilate the PLANTs. Hence, the nuclear weapons and then the Requiem.
This is different from Orb's situation. In this situation, Orb has just seen EA use a nuclear attack and will clearly be ready with it's own (assuming it did have nuclear weapons), so EA can't possibly hope for an attack without consequences.
Except Orb doesn't even have nuclear weapons. So, again, your argument simply has no basis.

And like I said, by attacking Boaz first, the PLANTs would also be ready.
And now Orb knows it will ultimately end up winning and regain it's country back. If the distinction is irrelevant there then it'll be irrelevant here as well.
Except Orb doesn't want to be invaded again in the first place. So saying it's alright because when the war ends Orb will be free again doesn't cut it.

They want a better outcome than what happened in SEED.
Ultimately Orb isn't (or rather shouldn't) be that stupid. They ought to be able to recognise that they prevented EA from getting what it wanted, they ought to be able to recognise what effect that would have on the EA and the ought to be able to recognise that means the EA will be less inclined to waste it's resources again. The fact that they were attacked the first time does not disprove any of this
The fact of the matter is none of that matters because what Orb saw was that their country was attacked and lost.
Wait a minute. I asked you to explain why the bolded was relevant to what we're talking about since the point is only on Orb's perspective before the treaty and nothing more. And then you responded by saying "because Orb knows EA from SEED" as if the two points are somehow related.

Provided there are no other factors...

But you can at least recognise that the Destroy argument isn't relevant here right? I'm only pushing for an answer because I wanted to make sure I wouldn't get any beef about ignoring anything you've said. Don't bother responding to this if you don't want to.
Let me put it this way:

Orb knows the EA's character from SEED. That is why they have a reason to think that the EA is not a reasonable entity that could be easily deterred.

That's my point about Orb.

And then, if you don't believe that the EA is such an entity, my point to you about the EA is the Berlin example.

So the Berlin example is not about Orb. But it does further show the EA's character, and the EA's character is why Orb made it's decision.
That's what we're arguing above. I'm just pointing out that the SEED invasion isn't complete proof EA can't be deterred and that other factors can make a difference. In your original point you were making it sound as if no other factors could possibly affect this which I took issue with.
It's not that the EA couldn't be deterred, it's that there is no indication that Orb had anything to deter the EA. That's my point all along.
There's no way Orb could possibly believe ZAFT would believe that lie as Yzak stated. If you watch that scene, you'll see for yourself and that it's a group that knows Orb is messing with them and knowing full well they don't expect them to believe it.
Well, as you can see, they bothered going to Orb to find evidence of the Archangel being there, so it's still a gamble worth taking. The problem with the Seiran was that someone took a picture of them welcoming Djibril. So the lie in Destiny was easily debunked and so ZAFT proceeded to ignore Orb and attacked.
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