[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

While I'd agree on a difference, I'd argue that it ultimately doesn't matter.

I disagree.

I don't know if this anime is going to have much of a theme or not, but if it does, it might have absolutely nothing to do with idealism vs. cynicism, per se.

The theme might simply be that it's better to be careful, cautious, diplomatic, thoughtful, and trying to find peaceful solutions to problems (like Madoka), than it is to be courageous, headstrong, welcoming of conflict, and quick to engage in violent solutions to problems (like Sayaka).

That is a separate issue from idealism vs. cynicism, Kaijo, as the two competing positions are both somewhat idealistic. In fact, one could easily argue that Madoka's is the more idealistic and morally cleaner of the two (violence can, of course, be seen as bad in and of itself).

So if Madoka is shown to be right all along, and if Sayaka is shown to be wrong all along, then how does that promote cynicism over idealism? Fact is, that it doesn't.


Now, as I've stated before, I don't want an intensely idealistic climax for this anime, where Madoka is the ultimate heroine triumphing over an incredibly evil big bad, bringing down a corrupt system with him.

But regardless of what I want there, it would hardly be illogical or "bad writing" (in an objective "this doesn't make sense" way) for Urobuchi to go for that. I think it would be a missed opportunity for this anime to go for that, but that's not quite the same as "bad writing", per se. I've read plenty of comic books with idealistic messages, but they were still reasonably well-written.

Sayaka and Madoka (and Mami) were all doing "good" things,

Not necessarily. If Madoka's approach is shown to be right, one can argue that Sayaka wasn't doing "good", but that she was rather being reckless, needlessly violent, and not thinking things through enough.

Perhaps some hardship along the way, but ultimately triumphing.

Well, that's what Madoka is going through. Hardship.

If Madoka's basic beliefs and values remain unchanged for the entirety of this anime, and she ends up triumphing in the end (arguably because she stood by those beliefs and values) then what does that say, Kaijo?

Since Mami is dead and Sayaka is supposedly headed for a psychotic breakdown and Madoka is ineffectual, I personally think the writing is fairly clear.

Well hey, by this rationale, we can argue that the cynical Homura is "ineffectual". Homura probably didn't want Mami to die, and Sayaka heading for a psychotic breakdown likely doesn't help matters on the Madoka front.

Also, being ineffectual at persuasion doesn't necessarily mean that the point you're trying to make with that persuasion is wrong. In fact, a good way to show that the point being made was correct is to show negative repercussions arising from that point being ignored or dismissed.