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Old 2012-11-22, 20:00   Link #31217
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Originally Posted by NeoMobius View Post
Could anyone help me out matching these traits to the complete cast of Umineko Characters

Here's what I have so far, I would appreciate any help if you could point who does or doesn't belong. In the end I hope to have one person per category without repeat. Thanks
Hm ... it ... kinda depends on what your purpose is? And what do you mean by "one per category without repeat", since there are like 50 characters..? Also, off the top of my head, the only character who'd probably fit "Lazy" would be Kumasawa. Certainly not Belphegor
Originally Posted by Kiltias View Post
Is it just me or is there some connection between stakes and parents?

7 being the amount of them as well as being able to fit to each.

Envy - Leviathan - Kyrie
Pride - Lucifer - Natsuhi
Wrath - Satan - Rosa
Greed - Mammon - Eva
Gluttony - Beelzebub - Hideyoshi

Only two problems I see are Lust and Sloth.
Lust isn't meant as sexual but it stands for desire.
Lust for power,fame,money whatever one can desire, but it doesn't mean sexual only, that just thought so as its often associated with it.
I'd actually put Lust for Krauss, desiring the inheritance and power, wasn't it that he made some failed investment or something?I think it was a resort.
Yes, there's always been a rather thin correlation between the Stakes and the adults. There are seven of each, and both are a large group of siblings (being generous and including the spouses as brothers/sisters-in-law, of course). Furthermore, at least in EP1 and 2, the fantasy narrative played with the idea, very barely, that the stake victims were particularly guilty of what they were killed with (for example, in EP1 and 2 Kanon was killed by Satan as a result of his rush to attempt to fight Beatrice). It's an idea the story dropped after, at the latest and thinnest, Kyrolf's battle in Banquet.

The problem, as I see it, isn't with Lust and Sloth, but with conflation - several of the adults are decent fits for several of the sins.

On the matter of definitions - it pays to keep in mind that the list of the 7 deadly sins went through many, many translations over the centuries as it travelled between languages, and evolving semantics. The way that most of us know it was "codified" in Dante's Divine Comedy like 700 years ago, based on a revised list by Pope Gregory I.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that while, yes, Lust doesn't HAVE to refer to the sexual, it really, at least since then, almost always, ALWAYS ALWAYS is, which isn't surprising considering the rather high place most cultures put on some kind of codified sexual mores. If we always used lust more abstractly, to refer to desire in general, it would bleed too much into what's typically given to Greed, Envy, Sloth, all of them really. So it's probably simpler to keep it to the desire to bump uglies.

It IS interesting, though, that in the Divine Comedy, I believe Dante defined each of the sins as a type of twisted love (this fits really well with Beato's framework where love is the only element in the world) that took away from your love of God in some way. Lust, then, was an "excessive love of others", or something like that. Greed, then, was a love, specifically, for material goods. Gluttony, a love for consumption, and Envy, a love for what is not yours. This definition of Lust is supported by Umineko at least, in the sense, that Asmodeus defining trait (as a side character, she only gets one, of course) is that she wants to fall in love, or at least have a nice roll in the hay, I guess ... she made up her mind long ago about giving her chocolates to Amakusa in the Valentines TIP, after all.
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