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Originally Posted by itachi-san314
you're saying hiruzen is and I'm saying that in order to stop orochi he had to sacrifice his own life. sure he was old, but nothing he did in that fight implied that he would be so tremendously better when he was younger. I'm not coming down on hiruzen. hes awesome. im saying that the powers we saw in that fight pale in comparison to things like rinnegan, susano'o, meteors and moons
the moves hashirama used in that ET form were not all that impressive when compared to current fights. therefore we can assume that orochimaru's ET was not complete. kabuto even says himself that he's perfected ET beyond what orochimaru was capable of.
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Everything we saw at that point in the manga pale compared to the things you brought up. Naruto as a series just wasn't nearly as flashy back then as it was now; that's entirely the point.
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I totally agree. you dont seem to understand that you are contradicting yourself. if hashirama was capable of so much more (which we both seem to believe he is) then why not use it to beat sarutobi? simple answer: orochimaru wasnt fully adept at using him.
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Simpler answer: Kishi hadn't conceived the kind of extreme techniques we're seeing at this stage in the game, and so shinobi that by all rights should appear much more threatening seem underwhelming as we look at them now. I'm sure that if we saw Madara in action back at that point in the manga, he wouldn't have been forming Susano'o and flinging a meteor around, either.
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right, but he did die. each generation is mostly superior to the last one, which is a common theme in naruto. jutsu now arent anymore superpowers than what sarutobi displayed. they are just more advanced and more powerful. its all magic on a very general way of looking at since no humans can do any of this stuff. the discussion is about who is the best in their primes. when all is said and done it will be naruto and sasuke almost certainly.
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Which isn't at all what he meant, I don't think. The point was that what we're seeing now is much more flashy, regardless of level, than what we were seeing back then. I sincerely doubt that Kishi had planned out the crap we're seeing now way back then, and the point was that if Sarutobi were fighting in the manga right now he'd probably look considerably more impressive.
By the way, trying to use the generational argument loses quite a bit of ground given how high Hashirama and Madara are. If that system were consistent, they'd have been majorly outclassed by now.