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Originally Posted by Asleep

But the three of them are against Lelouch. So putting them with Kallen makes no sense. That makes the OP pointless.

Just because we do not know some thing's meaning does not make it pointless. As I said, all four of those people exist on both sides of Lelouch and are, in fact, the only four left who are not Suzaku or C.C.. It could very be alluding to that fact.

Originally Posted by Asleep

Oh, so anything could have happened after Kallen stopped him, but Kallen stopping him, was written in stone? You make no sense. You are the one who started the anything was possible because Kallen stopped him debate. If you are going there, anything is possible anywhere. Maybe Kallen not coming there could have played out for the best, for all you know. You are the one to start with because Kallen stopped him at that time, Lelouch could have been saved later in myriad ways.

Yes, yes it was written in stone. Or as close to it as it could. As I said, no one else was even remotely shown as having worried about Lelouch. Rolo was also shown to be trying to break Lelouch so there we really only two possibilities (especially when we saw that C.C. didn't even give a damn). Either Lelouch would break under Rolo's torment, or Kallen would carry through with why she called him in the first place.

I know I started the 'anything is possible because Kallen stopped him debate' you do not need to inform me about my own arguments. And so far, I have kept that point quite alive. My saying that not everything is possible prior to the event is in no way contradictory to my original claim.

Do not even say that anything is possible anywhere. This is not a blank slate, only on an empty plane of no preordained events is 'anything possible anywhere'. In a story only a few events are ever possible because of how the story was built up. For instance, since you seemed to have missed this point, the show made it quite clear that Lelouch needed to be saved from Rolo and from his loss of Nunally. The only person shown to care about the situation or even understand it was Kallen. As such, if no one had shown up, meaning Kallen had not shown up, the number of possibilities is limited to one and only one baring some supernatural nonsense. That possibility is Rolo breaking Lelouch. Once Kallen intervenes all bets are off because Rolo's original plan is thwarted and Lelouch is no longer completely out of his mind.

Sure enough, Lelouch could be saved later in a myriad of ways, he could also be further condemned and the story could have ended. Given the situation and Rolo's existence, the latter would be far more likely. Once Rolo breaks Lelouch, he'll not let anyone have him. We know this as fact, that he is greedy of Lelouch, there is no other reason for him to have killed Shirley. So while anything is certainly possible, some events are far more probable than others, so much so that the improbable should hardly even be humored.

Originally Posted by Asleep

How can you say if the fireworks scene didn't happen Lelouch would still have returned in time? You are undermining the fireworks scene. If it didn't happen Lelouch wouldn't have gone back. He was down in the dumps. If his friends had gone to the trip he would still have been depressed. Suzaku would have been able to get the OotBK. Lelouch wouldn't have returned. It would end there.

The amount by how much I am raising Kallen's role in the events is minuscule, but I am still putting it as a more important part of the overall whole. I am not saying it is some ultimate event, I am simply saying that it is marginally more important. On the grand scheme of things it hardly matters. This is completely bypassing the fact that I am looking at it from character contribution, in which case Kallen is the person who contributed most. Whereas the fireworks scene was many people.

If you are curious as to why I do such a thing, it is because one happened out of coincidence, while the other occurred because of a single person's own actions.

Originally Posted by Asleep

Kallen didn't stop "Rollo's plan to get Lelouch depressed". Rolo didn't even offer him the drug. And he was still all depressed after Kallen left, so I don't see how she succeeded in pulling him out of his sadness. She stopped him from taking refrain. The rest was done by his friends at school.

Again, I've never said he was snapped out of his depression. I said he was simply pulled from the deep end by Kallen. And yes, Rolo did not give Lelouch the drug, but he most certainly forced him into the corner where only the drug was left. Or do I have to again bring up the train? Rolo's plan is as clear as day, he wanted to break Lelouch, how can you even be arguing that?

Originally Posted by Asleep

So whatever happened between Lelouch and C.C. in Kallen's absense was meaningless? I don't think so. I don't think the cave scene was created only to show Kallen's jealousy. It also showed Lelouch was different from C.C.'s other partners. He thanked her, he cared for her. Foreshadowing like this is usually saved for the end. When it comes to Kallen, you are biased too. You don't want to see that there were other things being developed there too.

I was referring to your overly emphasized line of the white snow. The cave scene in its entirety is a different matter entirely and not one of which I have been speaking about in relation to Kallen.

Originally Posted by Asleep

The way the episode ended, -with Lelouch's particular words, and C.C.'s "I see", with Kallen all jealous, it does.

No, it forms the illusion of one. You cannot have a love triangle when the only love evident at that time was from Kallen to Zero. There was no evident love between Lelouch and C.C., nor between Lelouch and Kallen. There simply was no love triangle that existed without the perversion of events by personal bias.

Originally Posted by Asleep

Then why did she say no one had ever thanked her. Or that she was all alone? How have they cleary shown her love? What made her so cold?

I'd gander, from the most recent episode, that her selfishness towards whatever her wish is, made her cold. She is all alone because she chose to be. She chose to leave Mao, and she chose to leave the Cult. She said it herself.

Originally Posted by Asleep

What selfishness? Did she get thrown out or did she leave on her own? Wasn't she a captive of Clovis, when Lelouch found her in the first episode?

If she tells them that she's sorry for abandoning them... then more likely than not, she left of her own volition. Or do you think that Clovis stormed the Geass cult to capture her?

Originally Posted by Asleep

But that again only showed that Kallen is falling for Lelouch. Did Lelouch even so much as think of her in the last episode?

Where have I even mentioned Lelouch's affection towards Kallen? I simply said that there are romantic developments occurring. Kallen's attempt to learn about Lelouch through his sister is about as obvious as it can get.