View Single Post
Old 2013-02-12, 02:48   Link #5896
monster
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
I've already made the point that Orb, after everything they had been through would be pursuing nuclear weapons extremely vigorously and would not ignore a source for NJC right under their noses. They don't even have to have the God damn technology. They could simply leak formal pacts made with Archangel who everybody knows has the technology and people will make the assumption that Orb has the technology too.
Archangel doesn't have the technology, Kira/Lacus does. And there's no indication that they would share it.
Quote:
Yes, when EA didn't realise ZAFT could respond back, like I just said.
That maybe true for Junius 7, but not for subsequent attacks. The EA knows that ZAFT has the technology to make nuclear weapons since ZAFT invented the NJC.
Quote:
Sorry, I mean ZAFT's Neutron Stampeder.
Alright, but that still didn't bring the conflict to a stand still. It only prevented the EA from trying to attack ZAFT with nuclear weapons.
Quote:
Only on Earth and it was very clear that neither of them had any stomach to contemplate the use of nuclear weapons again or anything similar until they were absolutely sure that the other side could not respond. That very clearly suggests they were concerned with the consequences and do still consider MAD.
Actually, with the Neutron Stampeder, the EA lost the capability of effectively using nuclear weapons against ZAFT. So MAD wasn't even a factor.

In fact, the fact that EA even used nuclear weapons in the first place showed that MAD was never a factor.
Quote:
You're talking about two different things entirely.

Is the occupying of Orb worth it after the invasion has taken place and there is no resistance left? Yes.

Does that mean the invasion itself was ultimately worth it in the end? No

You're confusing the two.
At the end of the day, that distinction is irrelevant to Orb because Orb was still attacked.

Orb now knows that if the EA ever wants something from Orb, the EA is willing to get it by force.
Quote:
From SEED? You were talking about the Destroys, remember?
You're confusing the two.

Orb knows the EA from SEED.

The Destroys are merely examples of what the EA are capable and willing to do.

Try not to mix the two.
Quote:
The point is about Orb's character, which it has been from the start. We are discussing whether Orb has reason to believe it can deter EA. Anything else is irrelevant.
And the Orb invasion is a perfectly legitimate reason for Orb to believe they're not capable of deterring the EA.
Quote:
Which proves that neutrality isn't the only factor. But if you remember, you're point was "It proves to Orb that being neutral doesn't prevent them from being a target."

You were making it sound as if as long as Orb remained neutral, then they would be attacked, which i disagreed with.
And you've also admitted that Orb was not strong enough to defend itself against the EA.

So without the power to defeat the EA, and if being neutral wasn't enough to keep the EA, then what will actually deter the EA from attacking Orb anytime it wants something from Orb?
Quote:
As for the original point, the fact that we are talking about the very nation that was attacked does not mean that the nation can not later deter the nation that attacked it.
That would require Orb to possess something as a deterrence. Otherwise, if the EA ever wants something from Orb it would try to take it by force again.

And In the 2 years since SEED, there's no indication that Ob has suddenly gained anything that would deter an attack.
Quote:
He was in charge of an elite unit that contained currently contained ZAFT's strongest mobile suits. As well as being the son of the leader of the ZAFT, I think it's reasonable to say he knows what he's talking about when it comes to what he thinks would be good for ZAFT in these situations.

And it doesn't change the fact that the sky is blue either. What's your point? Orb knew what they were risking and what they were risking wasn't just a conflict with one ship.
My point is that Athrun does not speak for all of ZAFT's leadership. The reason why Athrun didn't attack was because he's the kind of person who wouldn't needlessly attack without need.

But just because Athrun is like that, it doesn't mean that Orb is capable of deterring an attack from either EA or ZAFT.

Heck, ZAFT's invasion of Orb in Destiny proves that if they really want it, they have no problem attacking Orb.
Quote:
The PR stunt wasn't done to stop EA from attacking.
We're talking about ZAFT in this part.
Quote:
That's not what PR stunts do.
It is when the "PR stunt" is a lie that attempts to negate the very reason why ZAFT would attack in the first place.
Quote:
Then why would he draw parallel to the Archangel incident? Orb didn't believe they actually fooled ZAFT then and they didn't do what they did in SEED because they thought ZAFT could be fooled.
Orb tried to fool ZAFT in SEED as well.
monster is offline   Reply With Quote