[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by SilverSyko

Y'know, I can't really see Kayaba as the way Dauerlutscher is describing him. He's not some sick fuck who gets a kick out of toying with other people's lives and just wants to be a source of chaos like The Joker from Batman or something. He's never showed any joy or satisfaction towards anyone dying in while they were trapped in SAO, and I think that's a pretty big difference.

I disagree. Recall how he regarded Asuna when she died by his sword... he just shruggs it off. He doesnt care that he just killed someone. No the only thing that caught his attention that she was able to move when logically she shouldn't have been able too. The same goes for after he "killed" kirito; he showed no remorse, emotion or care that he just committed murder. He is just cold and unfeeling. Heck if actually DID care about their lives, he would not have started this death game in the first place. He does not get satisfaction out of killing, but he has no remorse for it either.

Frankly, what you saw with heathcliff was more than likely nothing more than just an act. Afterall he was playing the role of the great leader and as such a leader must show compassion for his men. Heck under his command not a single player had to die as he could have just told them to sit back while he and his immortal body did all the work. His purpose as heathcliff was to keep pushing the players to risk their lives and you can't do that without pretending you care about their lives. Basically, he was just roleplaying.

Originally Posted by Oroboro

Kayaba is a monster. Nobody here, and nobody in the SAO-verse is offering him pity or sympathy.

Kirito and Asuna seemed to be doing exactly taht when they met with him... understanding him is question why he did what he did, but then they end with encouraging his dream; the dream that killed 4,000 people. That certainly seems to be sympathizing with him.

It's hard to direct hatred at someone who doesn't care.

Had Kirito made a bitter, impassioned speech at the end of episode 14, calling him a monster and casting the deaths of everyone at Kayaba's feet, I'm sure his only reaction would be to shrug and just walk away. Leaving him feeling empty and hollow, compared to the peaceful contentedness which with he chose to spend his (presumed) last moments instead.

First, most people are not driven by logic, they are driven by emotion; in a difficult situation like that you are more like to follow with your emotions than logic. Kirito's was RAGING against Heathcliff just moments ago, and saw the love of his life die, and now he was dealing with the fact that both he and his lover and now dead and their happy lives are at and end... And kirito bares no ill will towards the man that killed them and 4000 others? No his emotions should not just drop off the face of the earth like that.

Furtharmore, they went as far as symapthize with his dream as if they were letting Kayaba die happy. No after the terrible things he had down I would at least die with regret, guilt or anything. In a sense, it would have been better for kirito to say NOTHING rather than for him to go on a sympathize with the dream that killed thousands. Heck right after Kayaba leaves Kirito and Asuna are crying over the end of their lives, and yet they just let their murderer walk away without a single nasty word, but instead with word's that seemed more meant to give him some final satisfaction

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Presumably Kayaba knew/felt he should be punished for the actions--after all, he set himself up to be the final boss, and if the "echo" of him in the ALO arc is any indication, set himself up under the same death game rules for that final boss fight like everyone else, so that the person who killed his avatar would kill him as well.

Not necessarily. Some people prefer to choose how they die and for them death is not really a punishment. They managed to do what they wanted to do in life and end it the way they wanted too. In Kayaba's case, its more like his death was meant to be the end to the greatest story ever told

Also, I don't know if anyone's brought this up yet, but I do think part of the reason why Kirito wasn't openly hostile to Kayaba in ALO is both because he had just aided Kirito in defeating Sugou to save Asuna, and because he had inadvertently gotten to know Kayaba as a person due to their interactions as Heathcliff--how do we know that Kayaba changed his personality to be Heathcliff? The echo was pretty reasonable as a person (so to speak), and so was Heathcliff--after all, after getting Kirito to join his guild only for someone to murder a comrade before making an attempt on him, Kirito says he and Asuna are going on vacation and he's like "That's fine, you deserve it after that crap. Sorry."

So I do believe that Kirito knows that Kayaba is a monster, but he for a good deal of time got to see Kayaba as a person. And that person went and aided Kirito when for all intents and purposes he didn't have to.

There have been plenty of times where a hero has been helped by a former villian in stories, and one thing that a lot of the best stories do in those situation is make those meetings TENSE. If the hero hates the villain for what they done, those feelings will show; while on the one hand they may want to thank them for what they did, another part of them wants to punch them in the face for everything they did in the past. Angry looks, long silences, resentful tones of voice and so forth is how a character shows this old unforgotten anger. If you did not know the history behind these characters you can tell from their tone of voice, attitude and body language that the history they share was not a pretty one. Not showing such details is for a character that holds no grudges... which would be terrible since Kayaba is guilty of trapping 10,000 people in a death game for his own selfish reasons which got 4,000 of them killed


Also Heathcliff was actually more manipultive than human... afterall his primary purpose seemed to be to push players to keep risking their lives. Heck he let them go on their vaction but not before telling them that they would soon be back to the frontlines; it's as if he knew that they would not be able to leave well enough alone and their vaction would only give them MORE reason to fight... which was sorta true as they began to doubt their ability to simply retire and just live in SAO. And heck heathcliff didn't even wait for them to come back on their own as he ended up calling them to the frontline for their hardest battle yet. Heathcliff was not Kayaba's true face, it was just the one he used to manipulate other players into doing what he wanted them too so that he could play out his little story.

Originally Posted by Dengar

Hey, no one is liking what he did. But it seems that it was truly his only aim. His intent was not a massacre. That his actions resulted in a couple thousand deaths is indeed a fact, but that was not his aim.

Here's a question... Why the boss set up? If all he wanted to do was to create his own realistic world, he could have just made it so that no one could get out of the game and thus be forced to live in his world. But no, he set up a series of DEADLY challenges that would give the thousands what they most desired; the freedom he stole from them. Furtharmore he himself even became a leading participant in the frontline fight to furthar encourage players to risk their lives. He WANTED players to risk their lives to fight to the top even knowing that most would be killed... this was more than creating a world and forcing people to live in it, as he was actively pushing them to put their lives to even greater risk... he was playing games with people's lives

Kayaba does not deserve anykind of sympathy; he didn't have noble goals, or a "greater good" storta reason. He was just a selfish monster that wanted to play in his own little world

Originally Posted by Esebian

Well sorry to say that, but that is how life works...people will always be pushed around by the people who have more might and rights than them with the corresponding results.

And although that may be madness, everybody accepts it.

Yes that does happen in the world, except the people of the world are constantly trying to change that. Those that push around others are villians and the good people of society try to get rid of them; the only reason they remain because getting rid of them can be very difficult. Kayaba is no different than the rest of those monsters in the world and deserves nothing but contempt