[Kylon99]

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

But thanks for responding like an asshole and insulting my viewpoint and my intelligence. That's totally appreciated.

You're welcome. Now you know what it feels like. Turnabout of this minor amount is fair play after the months and months of vitriolic spew we had to endure from you. That's totally appreciated for it's brown offal like quality too. And that's not just me speaking here.

Originally Posted by AuraTwilight

The point I'm making is we know nothing about Rokkenjima Prime whatsoever; this is inarguable, and considering Bernkastel's personality, viewpoints, tactics, and what she seems to embody, it's entirely possible that her depictions of Rokkenjima are more accurate than any other Gameboard.

We just don't know for sure, so we can't discount the things her gameboards say wholemeal.

Can you please say what you mean without resorting to hyperbole? I mean, do you seriously believe we know NOTHING" about Rokkenjima Prime at all? I mean... not even stuff about Eva surviving and Battler-Tooya? Is this absolutely in-arguable? I mean, here I am, arguing that we do know something about Rokkenjima Prime, are you going to strike me down as I speak?

No, I think we know quite a few more things about Rokkenjima Prime now. Your attitude smacks of the same EP2 "OMFG it's magic, it's all useless" attitude. Which I know you don't really have. So please, just tell us what you mean and stop this swearing and arguing in extremes.


Here, let's talk about something actually worthwhile. If you want to resort to saying everything is useless, go somewhere else. And like I said, if you want to question Ryukishi's authorial skills, please talk about it somewhere else.

---

Here's something I thought of while I was considering the argument from the others. Remember how we had these strange reds?

You are incompetent[!]
hi-hhihihhihihihihihihihihihihi[!!]

Renall, and probably others here have remarked how "You are incompetent" can't really be a red because it's not The Truth (tm). It's an opinion, which is, I think, on the same level as saying something like "Vanilla is the best ice cream flavor."

We've said red must be contexted to have any value; we've also noticed some reds have a general context ("No person would mistake Ushiromiya Kinzo by sight.") or an episode specific context. ("All of the master keys were under Rosa's control!")

So, I what I read from most people's arguments is that one more aspect needs to be taken into account: The point of view. It would explain these strange red texts. Well, the first one at least. Maybe the second.

Reasoning below:

Spoiler for Long winded reasoning. There's a reason why Renall had to summarize my posts before...:

The red is described to us as being true by the meta characters. In that it is 'simply the truth.' However, believing that the red is the 'simple truth' may be a mistake on the same level as believing the meta explanations for the other events. If we're to be taking the mystery point of view, red truth being 'simply the truth' can't be ... well.. true. So what is red text? At worst it's simply more white text, right? Well...


Back when I introduced what later became the Author Theory (link here: http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=5188), I said that the theory provides an explanation for the red at the authorial level:

To summarize, I noted that the authors (of whom we know are Yasu and Tooya-Battler) must have some kind of 'true' knowledge of Rokkenjima in order to write; or else they would be seen as incompetent. In addition there must be certain elements to the story that must fit reality (must be true) or else even an episode of Scooby Doo would qualify as an Umineko story. (This discussion came later)

I was saying that the red text must come from part of this knowledge. Essentially, red text (the generalized context kind) reaches right in to Rokkenjima Prime for its truth. It is the truth based on the point of view of the author. For example:

You are incompetent[!]
- This red truth isn't just the author's opinion. This red truth is a guarantee by the author to write Battler as 'incompetent.' And they both did, in the end as Battler as the detective was rather incompetent... to the end. Inside the story itself it was Beatrice who voiced it but Beatrice is a proxy for Yasu and Tooya-Battler. The other characters also were used as proxies for their writing as well when they spat out generalized red truth.


So, back to Shkannon. The reason I can agree that Shannon or Kanon can be 'dead' is because of two things:
1. Both Yasu-Prime and Tooya-Battler-Prime consider them to be dead. (Battler out of sympathy.)
2. But more importantly... that Yasu *must* write it this way in order to expose her misdeeds. She *must* kill Shannon and Kanon in Rokkenjima Prime and so therefore her stories, which must illustrate ultimately what she's thinking and feeling, MUST kill off Shannon and Kanon. The bad part is that she takes advantage of this.

You don't have to like it, nor do I. Because ultimately, this means we have a detective novel breaking event here. But I can see it happening this way. And I remember how Ryukishi talked about how evil this was; if this is what he meant was evil and unfair.