[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

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Spoiler for anime and manga spoilers:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

1. In the event of facing a powerful witch, it's good to know you have a Puella Magi fighting alongside you. This is so basic and common sense in nature that I'd expect a 8 year old to understand it. So I'm not letting a character off the hook here just because she's 14 years old.

You mean like how Mami pushed away Homura in the anime, or how Kyouko and Sayaka picked a fight with one another despite having no person to protect or Grief Seeds to gain from it?

Originally Posted by Triple_R

2. As Mami herself pointed out, Sayaka has saved her life multiple times already. Mami pointing this out isn't Mami "being kind", it's Mami pointing out pertinent, objective facts. If Sayaka cares at all about Mami's well-being then Sayaka should want to continue to provide Mami with support.

The point is that in the heat of the moment, Sayaka no longer cared about Mami, just like how Sayaka pushed away Madoka in the anime. It is logically unsound, but when angry teenagers make up their mind, they tend not to accept other people's "help".

Originally Posted by Triple_R

3. Mami and Sayaka do not have a major ideological division. They both want to fight witches and familiars. They both want to protect innocent people from witches and familiars. It made sense for Mami and Kyouko to split as the two had a deep and profound ideological division, including on the practical matter of whether or not to eliminate familiars. Meanwhile, Mami and Sayaka are of one accord when it comes to what a Puella Magi should be. Sayaka's moment of weakness pertaining to Hitomi does not change that.

You keep going through this utilitarian approach when when a relationship is not necessarily built on (or breaks apart because of) that.
How about something much more simple: "You tick me off and I don't like or trust you at the moment, so get out of my sight".

I agree that it would be an issue if Sayaka was much more rational in the source material, but she wasn't. She pushed away Madoka in the anime, and it wasn't to protect her.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

4. Sayaka's healing ability, particularly how its portrayed in this manga, means that her abilities/powers are much more optimally utilized if Sayaka fights alongside other Puella Magi than if Sayaka fights alone. In other words, if Sayaka wants to feel useful, then she should want to continue fighting alongside Mami.

If your self-esteem is down the drain, fighting with others also means they're doing most of the work for you.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The Sayaka in the anime was isolated due to Mami's death, and perfectly understandable mistrust and/or dislike of Kyouko and Homura. But the Sayaka in this manga is not isolated like that, as Mami is still around and has been a very prudent and reliable Puella Magi senpai.

Again, there was also no reason for anime Sayaka to push away Madoka with her "you don't know how I feel!" outburst, but she did anyway.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Sayaka effectively betraying Mami for no good reason is bad enough, but what makes Sayaka's manga characterization even worse is her breath-taking response to Kyousuke. Much to my surprise, we see in this manga Kyousuke give a thank you gift to Sayaka for all the times she visited him in the hospital. Here Kyousuke was friendly and kind towards Sayaka. Now, keep in mind that this Sayaka is not aware of the darker aspects of the Soul Gem. She has no reason to think that she's physically different than any other human, in other words. Sayaka clearly still loves Kyousuke and desires to be with him.

In a truly startling moment, Madoka takes decisive action in telling Kyousuke that his hand was healed by Sayaka! Equally startling is how Kyousuke shows no real skepticism over this, and asks Sayaka to explain further. It is readily apparent that Sayaka is on the very verge of romantic victory. There is little doubt that if Sayaka merely tells Kyousuke the truth that he will believe her, and may well feel such gratitude towards her that he would want to become her boyfriend.

So does Sayaka do what any remotely sensible person would do if in her situation, and simply tell the guy the truth? No, she instead manages to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory because of a ridiculous self-loathing hang-up over how she let down Hitomi once. It is truly groan-worthy...

I think the idea was that Sayaka believes she cheated in winning Kyousuke's affection. Instead of Kyousuke liking her for who she is, she believes he is only doing it because he owes her for healing his arm.

I do completely agree that it's poor reasoning though. The only fair excuse would be that she doesn't want Kyousuke to get too involved with her life-threatening line of work, but she didn't take that route.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

In the anime, Sayaka is faced with circumstances cruelly conspiring against her, hence her descent and fall is understandable and deeply pitiable. But here, plenty of things actually go Sayaka's way, and her fall was easily avoidable and preventable if she simply acted with just a modicum of intelligence and/or common sense. I don't mind characters making mistakes, or having flaws, but this manga goes to ridiculous extremes in this regard when it comes to Sayaka.

I disagree on this part, mainly because the central issue that led to Sayaka's fall in either story is still similar, and still easily avoidable in my opinion. She could have confessed to Kyousuke, and even if she didn't, she could have taken pride in the fact that she did indeed save him. Her entire issue with self-loathing and believing Kyousuke is also hard for me to sympathize with when you have both Mami and Kyouko losing their entire families and Homura going through everything she went through.

In fact, that's probably the primary complaint against her: her problems pale in comparison to the others even in the anime, yet she was also the worst in handling them.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Kyouko inexplicably goes back and forth between the following extremes:

1. Going out of her way to be a complete and utter jerk to Mami and Sayaka, saying some of the harshest comments imaginable given the circumstances, and clearly worsening the mental states for both Mami and Sayaka.

2. Showing deep concern for Mami and Sayaka's well-being if Kyouko feels that either is near-death.

Having high disdain for a person does not necessarily mean you hate the person enough to wish for their death. This applies to even the worst of bullies up to high school.

Being cruel is one thing, but being responsible for another person's death is an entirely different line that very few others would normally cross.

In fact, it would be even more unusual if Kyouko acted harshly to Mami and Sayaka even as they were dying.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

This is similar, of course, to how Kyouko's approach to Sayaka changed in the anime narrative. But in the anime narrative, at least this was a straight-line character development that never reversed itself, and it was spurred at least in part by important plot reveals. Kyouko's sudden 180 towards Sayaka was one of Madoka Magica's weakest aspects, imo, but rushed as it was, at least it made some sense.

Here Kyouko's behavior is simply erratic and makes no real sense on the whole. Does she want to take Mami's territory, or doesn't she? Does she want to help Mami and Sayaka, or doesn't she? I have my doubts that even Kyouko herself knows the answers to these questions. Kyouko might as well be Two-Face, flipping coins to decide how she's going to approach Mami and/or Sayaka in any given scene. Just no consistency whatsoever. I'd be fine with either or, or with a straight-line development, but Kyouko flip-flopping back and forth makes her look inexplicable at best, and very mentally weak at worst.

This is something that can be easily resolved if you read all the way through to the ending. Of course Kyouko isn't going to be developed well if you stop in the middle of a conflict.

I do agree however that Kyouko hasn't made up her mind yet, but I think that's the point. She's conflicted between her jaded past that shows her nothing good comes from being a goody-two-shoes and her true nature before her family tragedy that wants to help others.