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Old 2012-01-13, 01:01   Link #69
Sabaku Kyu
The Ironman
Join Date: Sep 2006
Originally Posted by El_Negro View Post
How can itachi be put in a really desperate situation and made a victim? He decided to put himself as the victim. There could be other options to prevent the massacre and have him take control of the clan instead, although we do not know if that's possible or not, but it sounds alot better than mass genocide and turning your beloved sibling into a vengeful-driven psycho

Itachi knew about the presence of Tobi/madara and instead of warning the Leaf village, he stayed silent. This seems noble at first, forcing Tobi to promise not to attack the village, but the best time the village/ninja world had to stop his plan/the 4th war would have been back then, probably warn the Uchiha & or the village elders about Tobi, the man RESPONSIBLE for the 9 tails rampage on the village.
Ok yeah, but how much better would that have made things in the long run? Knowing the truth that Madara was the true enemy behind the Kyuubi attack might've prevented the massacre of the Uchiha clan but it still doesn't change the fact that Madara is an Uchiha. It's his bloodline that gives him that power. A power every other Uchiha has the potential to wield. For the elders and Danzou, that just confirms how dangerous they are.

Let's say Itachi stopped the coup and take control of the Uchiha under Sarutobi's authority. How many are going to truly support him after he shows more loyalty to Konoha than his clan? Maybe the majority would be obedient because of his strength, but then there are those who could continue to rebel and become missing nin or even threats like Madara. The Konoha/Uchiha alliance was already uneasy before. Think things would get better or worse after the Uchiha revealed themselves willing to betray Konoha? How long could peace last before the old Senju/Uchiha grudges came up like they did before? A generation. Two or three maybe? To say the conflict would be finally be buried forever with a truce is hard to say. No matter how you look at it, it would be a fragile relationship-- easy to break and difficult to maintain.

If you're Itachi, thinking about Konoha's safety and its future I can understand arriving at the conclusion that leaving the Uchiha alive was like having a powder keg in the village. By wiping out his clan, he ends the bloodline permanently. Madara is still around, but Itachi forces him to agree to keep Konoha off-limits and joins Akatsuki to keep close on his heels. For good measure, he mind-rapes his brother into hating the other two remaining Uchiha. A guarantee that Sasuke would stop at nothing to end Madara's threat if Itachi failed. But Sasuke ended up falling right into Madara's lap anyhow, because Madara was always one step ahead of Itachi. Itachi was made to believe he had no choice but to make the worst decision anyone could make. And it was largely unsuccessful. That's why I say he was a victim.

Originally Posted by Hunter View Post
You also say that you're not sugarcoating it but that's pretty much all you did. Shika didn't go after Hidan because he was part of the team (he and dozens of others that is) sent after him, he (and his 2 friends who weren't even part of the mission to begin with) went after Hidan because he wanted revenge for his teacher, period. That's why Kakashi told Tsunade that it was no use to tell him not to go, because he would refuse blindly to follow order and go on his own anyway and so it was better to go along with him because at least they stood a better chance that way. There was no duty rational behind that, Hidan murdered Asuma and Shika burried him alive for it.
By not sugarcoating I meant that I wouldn't attempt to deny that what Shikamaru did was, by definition, revenge. He was wronged and he retaliated. That's revenge. I know you're not directly comparing Sasuke to Shika, but your inflection made it seem like you see no real distinction in their actions. Both selfishly seek revenge but Shika gets away scott free with it because, hey... he's Shika.

But Shika was sent on a mission to eliminate two threats to his village. His sensei died for that. After Asuma's last words were about how great potential is and how he's counting on him to protect the "king", just because Shika doesn't drop responsibility when Tsunade tells him to let the big boys take care of things makes it purely about revenge? Ino and Chouji weren't on the mission, but they were Asuma's pupils too and besides that, how could they leave Shika to face Akatsuki alone. I don't doubt that Shikamaru got a sense of satisfaction defeating Hidan, but declaring that Shika was purely motivated out of revenge really waters down the development of his character.

I don't think Shika not suffering some kind of karmic backlash for avenging Asuma is really Kishi making an exception to condone revenge. I mean, yeah Naruto's become a saint who resists the temptation of all revenge at any cost, and Sasuke is the horrible example of where revenge leads, but Sasuke is an example of revenge for revenge sake. He has no other cause or goal but to see the enemy punished. Shika took it on himself to finish his mission, help protect his village and avenge his master.

Last edited by Sabaku Kyu; 2012-01-13 at 01:24.
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