[jjblue1]

Originally Posted by Renall

Legal duties are not really the same as moral duties. In the United States, for example, Ange would be eligible to vote and enlist and be financially independent, among other things. I've met plenty of 18 year olds who can handle that and I've met plenty who can't. From what Umineko's shown me of Ange, I think she's the sort who can handle that sort of responsibility, so I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt on making her own choices.

Personally I think Ange can be mature in certain things and immature in others.
From here to say that 'Ange can surely handle this' or that 'Battler should have known Ange could surely handle this' there's a long way, at least as far as I'm involved.

Originally Posted by Renall

A parent's job isn't necessarily always to do what's best for their child. And in Ange's case in particular, she doesn't really have a parental figure at her age. Eva's dead (and distrusted), Kasumi's a stranger and an apparently crazy one at that, Battler doesn't know the Ange who is 18, and she really has nobody else. Even if you want to say someone in a parental role should attempt to influence her decisions (and, you seem to argue, control her access to information she desires), who exactly is supposed to do it?

A parent's job is to take care of his child the best he can. Of course a parent might make mistakes or might be in the condition in which he can't do what's best for a child but doing what's best (what he and the state think is best) for his child is HIS DUTY.

At least here.

No idea what's a parent's job in USA though. Or, to be honest, in Japan.

Eva was appointed to the role of parental figure so until her death she had the right and the DUTY to do that job.
Battler, as her only adult living relative, should also have that duty.
Legally I guess Kasumi could also claim that right, thought I would like very much to have her legally exhonerated from this and forced to stay as fra from Ange as possible. I doubt she really feel she has the duty to take care of Ange, all she seems to want is to use Ange... which would make her a person who wouldn't do her job of parental figure in the right way. At all.

The fact that Ange doesn't recognize either of them as a parental figure doesn't allow them to say 'oh well, Ange, then do as you please, we don't care'.

Originally Posted by Renall

We're not "imposing our values" on Battler. We're judging his actions based on the values we hold. There is no imposition and no penalty, nor does anything we do alter Battler's actions. We're just saying he was wrong.

The problem is that likely according to the world he lives the choice we deem 'right' would be 'wrong'.
It becomes a problem of mentality and Umineko was written for Japanese readers with Battler as a Japanese character.

If Umineko's moral (didn't everything started because someone debated this? Or am I remembering wrong? There were so many messages I might have lost track of things) seems wrong merely because it's based on the Japanese mentality that clashes with ours... well, we can't really blame Ryukishi for this.

We can not like this, as we can not like Kinzo's support of male supremacy or George's idea of a woman's position in the family but really, we shouldn't expect them to act differently.
They act according to their culture and world and since we know Umineko is a Japanese work, written by a Japanese person and with as main characters Japanese people of a certain time we've to expect them to act in a certain way.