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Old 2011-03-15, 14:55   Link #134
Sherringford
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by naikou View Post
Your reason should always be, "This person may be the culprit, I shouldn't (fully) trust their perspective." That is all the justification you need to doubt any particular scene.

It is so common to include unreliable narrators in mystery, it goes without saying. If Umineko was one of your first mysteries, then maybe it was unfair for you. That's too bad. But amongst mystery fans I discussed Umineko with (I even played EP1-4 with some friends over skype), it was obvious at every point in time that we should be considering the possibility of unreliable narrators, even if there were no clues about unreliability (which there were: the fantasy scenes).

But having an unreliable third person narrator feels cheap. There are a few well done novels like that, but they are few and far in between.

Why would a character lie? Because he is the culprit, of course. Why would he lie to himself? Because he isn't lying. He's just being elusive with words.

Spoiler for Murder of Roger Ackroyd and ABC murders:


A lying third person narrator--mind you, not just unclear but outright lying--is generally frowned upon in mysteries. Sure it can be done well, but it requires an absurd amount of talent.

In Umineko, the unreliable narrator isn't just the culprit. If it was, that would be fine. It's often a third person narrator, which makes it rather annoying.

And again, there is the science rule.

With a mystery novel, you know the rules. When the culprit is involved, the perspective is unreliable. With Umineko, it's different. When anyone at all is involved, the perspective is unreliable.

Did I see the "NOTHING CAN BE TRUSTED" theme from a mile away? Sure. Did I like it? Nope.

You can argue that his fantasy scenes and lies are just overly complicated padding of a testimony, but then I ask you this:

Are you really saying that like it's a good defense? If he's literally padding a simple testimony then that's...not...good. At all.

In a good mystery novel with an unreliable narrator, the lies should be hidden within the truth. In Umineko the truth is hidden within lies.

That affected the series quality quite a bit to me.

Last edited by Sherringford; 2011-03-15 at 16:56.
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