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Old 2011-10-27, 01:28   Link #285
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Originally Posted by LunarMoon View Post
The site you posted argues that happy endings are the standard, for which a professional writer says the same. According to TV Tropes, it’s such an omnipresent trope that it doesn’t even warrant its own page (“Far, far too common to provide example”). Likewise, there are entire fictional genres largely dedicated to happy endings. Romantic comedies almost always end in happy endings. The same can be said for most Hollywood popcorn flicks, the majority of action movies, the vast majority of comedies, the majority of romances, and the majority of teen movies. In comparison, only the uncommonly used play genre of Tragedy is primarily pessimistic. 15 to 1 wouldn’t be a far off assessment. People don’t go to the movies to be depressed, and I’m amazed that we’re even debating this when a simple look at the box office can provide you with the answer.
I never said that happy endings weren't the norm only that downer endings, and bitter sweet endings aren't as uncommon as you might think, especially for anime and manga (or eastern media in general). Several eastern series from the top of my mind that either have downer or bittersweet endings.

Dennou Coil
Digimon Tamers (for the kiddies)
Both Rurouni Kenshin OVAs-- the original manga had a happier ending
Revolutionary Girl Utena tv series
Neon Genesis Evangelion
Macross Zero
Shadow Star Naru Taru
Cutey Honey the Live
Deep Love
Chrno Crusade-- Ironically the manga had a happier ending
Princess Tutu
Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann
That was from the top of my head.

When? No, seriously, when? I mentioned that equivalent exchange was unrealistic though I shouldn't even have to explain again why that's so. Also, implying? As in I didn't actually say it, but you interpreted it as such? Well, there you go.

Originally Posted by LunarMoon View Post
Then I asked whether it surpassed the 2009 Full Metal Alchemist series, and decided that it definitely had the potential to do as such. Why? Because, like the first three episodes of Fate Zero, in the entire 37 episode run that I watched, it covers no major ideological themes that leave you thinking about them after you’ve finished watching it.

The problem with FMA Brotherhood, and this has been mentioned before, is that it indulges in too many shonen clichés, while simultaneously being to lighthearted to inspire a strong emotional response. So it’s nice and happy for those who thought that the 2003 series had too much “angst” (read: realistic character reactions and drama),

Thus the first FMA series earns points just from straying from that cliché, and actually attempting to inspire some level of emotional catharsis via tragedy.
Your own words. That was essentially what you were saying was that Fate/Zero and FMA:B, weren't any better than the 2003 series for not being grimdark. That you are using that as a criteria for judging a series, instead of the story itself, and the whether or not it actually pulled off those themes well. You also outright said that lighthearted shows cannot inspire any emotional response from the viewer. Also you basically said that its okay for a series to have cliches as long as its dark.

You mentioned the word "childish" or "juvenile" to insult the first series three times in one post, and you're telling me that you don't mind that an adaption is for kids?
Fun fact the original manga is aimed at kids as well, so why should I care whether or not the adaptation is for kids considering that that's who the original manga was aimed at? And subsequently both adaptations

You're acting as if we're discussing Schlinder's List, or some other series that most critics would actually describe as depressing. Full Metal Alchemist features a straightly played heroic protagonist (not an anti-hero like Shinji Ikari) who routinely risks his life for other people. Towards the end of the series, Dante notes that equivalent exchange is a lie, which initially seems depressing. Hohenheim later notes the positive benefits of this, since if equivalent exchange was true, there would never be anything that he could offer for the blessing of having a family. The series then ends as Edward notes the fact that even though there is no law of equivalent exchange and thus that the world is "ugly" and unfair, that he won't allow his brother die. Due to the fact that the world is a supposedly "ugly and unfair" place in which the there is no guaranteed law of equivalent exchange, Edward manages to bring both his brother soul and body back through sheer determination, without having to offer anything of equal value.

If a scenario like that comes off to you as purely ugly and grim then I don't know what would qualify as beautiful or optimistic. And it's not as if this theme is particularly subtle, either. It's verbally mentioned four times within a direct sequence of episodes: first by Dante in those exact words, secondly by Hohenheim, thrice by Ed as he attempts to retrieve his brother's soul without an equal sacrifice, and on the fourth time, Dante's exact line is repeated in verbatim by Roy Mustang. This isn't like those books that you were made to read during high school where you had to scan through 50 pages in order to figure out the theme..
Like I said before it failed to get an emotional response out of me, because I said it before the scenes ulitmately didn't have a point to them. It didn't help matters that I was more busy wondering why Ed and Al were such an idiots for me to have any type of emotional response.

I’ll humor you for a second. Let’s say that Roy Mustang is indeed a racist, who owns 12 slaves and rants about the purification of the white race. How does that make the anime racist? No, seriously; think about this. Also, on Hawkeye: The majority of the characters get “pushed to the side” because that’s one of the major differences between the two series. One focuses on a large cast of characters consisting of Ling, Lan Fan, Mei, Fou, four chimeras, Scar, Yoki, and Dr. Marcoh, that it follows on a regular basis. The other largely focuses upon the two brothers, with a revolving cast of supporting characters throughout the series. At one point in the series it’s Lust and at another point the focus character is Greed. You might as well just pull the Nazi Card and be done with it, if you’re going to argue racism or sexism.
It was one of many unfortunate implications of the 2003 series, and no, trying to exaggerate the situation doesn't make it any less racist. The fact of the matter is Roy's angst in the 2003 series was because of the fact he killed stemmed two people of his own race, and not the other hundreds of innocent civilian lives he took. Racism can be shown without slavery, the minute you hold someone of a different race of a lower regard you are racist, then you are a racist. That's why I said it was cheap drama because at the time the writers only wanted to get some sort of reaction out of people, that they didn't care to look at what they were doing was implying.
Its the same thing with how they treated the female characters, they did it for more cheap drama, to gain a reaction out of you, with out thinking back on what they were implying, and again you never answered my question what was the point to having Rose a character we don't know and don't care about raped? I can't even say that both brothers get the focus because the 2003 series was all about Ed. Al was just Ed's accessory.

Brooding over a traumatic past experience for 20 years and then writing a book about it is moving on? Then what on Earth counts as holding on to the past? Most people settle for therapy with a shrink.
He didn't brood, he even says that on the last points in the movie. He just moved on. Just because someone writes a book on an event in their lives doesn't mean that they haven't already moved on from it.

Incorrect. The reason everyone has "been on my case" for the last couple of pages is because I criticized a series in a topic dedicated to it, which is one step removed from going to a fan site, and posting a bad review. Of course, when I attempt to clarify my actual position (repeatedly) I'm well aware that the viewpoint of complete strangers in regard to what my opinion is will be more readily accepted than my own knowledge of what my own opinion is.
Considering your attempts to clarify only consist of you saying its lighthearted and therefore that makes it bad, or not as good, I've gotta wonder about that.

Last edited by wisteria233; 2011-10-27 at 03:33.
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