[Darkbeat]

Originally Posted by DonQuigleone

Which is a nationalistic goal. IE dismantly the Jewish state (the rival nation) and establish their own nation state (their state) in it's place. Cleaning the area of jews is a very nationalistic thing to do. It's expelling the "foreign elements". What do you think Nationalism is?

It depends. Making the palestinian territories free of Israelis would strike me as more nationalistic than making it free of Jews. Why the Jews? Why can everyone else live there but not the Jews? For the same reason, why can everyone else pray on the Muslim controlled Temple Mount but not the Jews?

Couple that with the venom spewed by extremist clerics against Jews and it seems to me that at least in the hearts and minds of many, the issue is religious not nationalistic.

Likewise, Jews are driven by their own type of nationalism, commonly called Zionism.

While I'm not a Zionist, I don't think you really want to draw a moral equivalency between extremist terrorist values and those who adhere to Zionism. Zionism has it's flaws, but it's not out to get anybody.

Only a third.. Most in fact do vote for Arab parties, and the Zionist parties they do vote for tend to be left wing (eg Labour etc.)

Most don't vote at all lol.

Arab voting for Kadima, Labour, Meretz etc is on the rise, though I doubt many would publicly admit to it. I have Israeli Arab friends who are the same.

Casualty numbers are fairly important. And a large proportion of those casualties are "innocent civilians".

They are important, but they are no indicator of right or wrong.

You can't say a large proportion are. You can't say they aren't either. You just don't know.

I can understand your point of course, but Israel currently does quite a bit to try and minimize civilian casualties. It took them years to respond to the rocket fire from Gaza.

Most of the PA's economy is dependent on trading with israelis, so I don't really believe that. I can believe that a person doing business with Jews might experience discrimination from their neighbours, however...

I posted links earlier in this thread showing several instances of this. 20 thousand Palestinians were made unemployed last year alone by Abbas. because they were employed by settlements for building.

It does not, but it does lower the number of extremists, and brings the moderates onto your side, so they deal with the extremists for you.

Pay the moderates to make them against terrorism. Somehow that just sounds wrong...

I thought you lived in Northern Ireland?

Ah sorry. I do. But I also study in Yeshiva in Mea Shearim in Jerusalem.

Why wouldn't it? Surely people with jobs are less likely to turn to extremism...

In an ideal world I guess...

Why not take Hamas at their word when they say they want to slaughter the Jews? It's a religious war for them. Complete with martyrdom. It's serious business.

No new settlements have been established, but existing settlements have been expanding, which is as good as the same thing.

And why shouldn't they? People get married, have children, extend their homes, live close to their parents and where their loved ones are buried. That's life.

You can say the same for Arab communities (including the non-palestinians like the Bedouin of the Negev), they also have the same rights, or should have the same rights.

Of course.

Bedouin are in the invidious position of running into Planning Laws with the High Court. Similar to the Travelling community here in the UK. That's another story, however.

Then why does the Lieberman plan want to remove a 1/3 of Israel's Arabs? What of the land system that's slated towards transferring land to Jews from Arabs. They're not saying that Israel is a land "purely for Jews" but the right are implying that they'd prefer it if it was.

Lieberman is in favor of a two state solution. He wants the Palestinian Authority to take in some arab villages/towns with land swaps. I don't agree with him.

He also doesn't speak for the right. He speaks for Yisrael Beiteinu voters who compromise a small minority of Israeli society.

As a very small minority. They were also living throughout Europe.

Actually this is a historical mistruth, for many times Jews were the majority in the Land of Israel.

But yes, the Jewish people lived all over. Take the 1 million Jews thrown out of Arab lands in 1948 for example.

What's your point?

I did not leave any neg reps. As proof you can see a new positive rep with my name on it.

My apologies, someone left one and signed your name to it. I've had a few (cussing me out) for pro-Israel posts and was quick to jump to conclusions. Again, sorry.