[Toku]

Originally Posted by jjblue1

I think the trick is that:
No person can keep in her field of vision so many people and see them all at the same time.

So Erika technically can never see everyone present in the parlour at the same time.

Of course in real life one can say: okay, I can't see them all at the same time but, if I keep on turning my eyes around I can check the position of everyone in a relatively quick time. In this short time in which I'm not observing Shannon or Kanon would Yasu manage to switch from one to the other and back? Without anyone noticing? What is she, Superman or a trasformist?

I personally wouldn't buy it... but in game 6 is said that the only way for Erika to prove that the 'corpses' were dead for sure was... well, to cut their head.

Since they were merely faking death technically they should have been still breathing, their heart beating, and they should have been able to react to pain.
In short it shouldn't have be so hard to prove they were merely faking.

Now... Erika wanted them dead, all right, but there's still the fact that everyone is secure she couldn't prove they were dead in any other way.

So the trick is a devil proof.

As Piece Erika can't keep everyone under control at the same time we can't deny the possibility that Yasu was speedchanging continuously as stupid as this can sound. So, even if Meta Erika were to look at the scene through Piece Erika's eyes, she couldn't deny that Shannon or Kanon were in the room at the same time because they could have been in two different locations and to gaze at one would force her not to gaze at the other.

The narrative is from Battler so, even if he were to see Shannon and Kanon at the same time it wouldn't be reliable so for Lambda it was possible to work up a trick in which she implied Shannon and Kanon were in the parlour at the same time and Erika could have not noticed that actually when one of them was present the other was absent.

Hmmm. I just think that there should be no need to resort to the most ridiculous explanations when a less ridiculous one is available. Now, granted, it's still somewhat ridiculous if LD put a physical body for Kanon in EP5, but there's no way it could be as ridiculous as speedchanging!Yasu... I mean, it may be a devil's proof, but even so, it would take many miracles, one after another, to pull this off, and a lot of skill too. We are given no clues which could lead us to believe that Yasu is that good at continuously switching. Sure, she can switch at will, but this is something totally different...

Aside from the perception theory you gave, and the additional body theory I brought up, the only other theories seem to involve meta-world stuff, which I just really don't like. It should be irrelevant in this case, anyway, because what we're looking at is why Meta-Erika didn't notice the lack of Kanon, not why we didn't notice. What we saw was from Battler's perspective, but what Meta-Erika saw through her piece's eyes should have been different and much more accurate.

Through the trick is in itself pretty ridicule (Yasu speedchanging her clothes and no one noticing? This would be weird.) it's not more weird that Erika not noticing/checking that Kanon was nowhere in EP 6... or for people not noticing that Shannon and Kanon have the same face... or for people believing that Shannon and Kanon were two separate people.

1. Erika didn't have Detective's Authority in EP6. Therefore it's not only possible, but very easy to feed her false information. Piece!Battler in EP1-4 saw all kinds of crazy stuff that shouldn't have been possible, so it only makes sense that Piece!Erika in EP6 could too. Not only that, but BATTLER was able to skillfully dodge the issue of saying in Red that Kanon was in the cousins' room because Erika told him to say "everyone else."
2. Aura seems to have found a theory for the same face thing, in her post right before yours.
3. I think the best theory for this is probably that Yasu was bribing people to play along and treat Kanon as a different person.

Personally I don't really like much the Shkannon thing in Umineko... but as it looks like that's what Ryukishi planned and everyone in Rokkenjima swallowed I guess I can't put past him to use a trick like the one I described.

Yeah, it's a really odd trick and I didn't like it at all when I first read about it. Even so, what I disliked most about it was the whole "they're all different personalities in the same body" theory. But really, they seem to be more like masks (or characters in stories she wrote) than anything else.

Plus, you can easily use wonderful Reds like all people can only use their own names and still get this past the radar easily, because Yasu owns all of these names. Things like this make me think it's just really witty.

After all, if you can come up with a possible theory for something that seems completely impossible, then you have a much higher chance of winning (if you're on the witch side). And I really just love logic games like that. Reading Umineko has given me the insatiable desire to trap people in crazy, impossible-looking closed rooms, and dare them to find a way out, and cackle at them from the shadows (in an RP setting, that is. or something of that sort anyway).