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Spoiler for More discussion:

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

That ends up saying they weren't interested in investigating it. And perhaps there was a reason. Perhaps they found all they were looking for. Michael and Klan set out to investigate the drug Sheryl was taking and once finding out about Sheryl's illness, they stopped because their investigation was over.

At that point in the story, I think the last thing on Michael's mind was Brera. But he did grow suspicious of Luca in that episode, being called by the government, though we all know why (the audience at least).

Yeah, the whole aspect with Luca was weird. In the end, it turned out that Michael just didn't want secrets between friends or something.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Oh, I never said he wouldn't help when realizing it, but poor Nanase is in a coma and his help could possibly wake her up. He should've at least shown some significant attention to her, given that Luca was busy, Michael was dead, Klan and Sheryl didn't really know her, and Ranka was either too busy or had already left. That's where I put Alto in the OOC zone for the remaining episodes, with the exception of 23, but even then he doesn't show much concern for her but rather Ranka.

Hey, he did visit her and spend some time. It's not as if he didn't have other things to do and she was well well taken care of in the hospital.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

For the conspirators: they kinda spoiled that in the series. The voices talking in Grace's head in the episodes are those conspirators. They were never introduced formally in the series but you could hear their voices. If you need proof, just watch 25 back when Grace makes her statement about Alto breaking Ranka out of her hold. There are other voices there, the same ones from the movie. So they're not out of the blue since they were already in the plot, but that part hadn't been covered in the series.

As for villains: Leon was never a good villain. Yes, he could be a bad guy, a person you could kill off - like some random rapist - but he couldn't be a main villain in a show. Never. He was too expendable. I disliked his character and how it tried to grow into being a villain even in the series. However, I like Grace as both a villain and protagonist. There's something about her that is so good that it could play both roles. And Brera could play a good villain too.

If they'd introduced new villains, perhaps the plot wouldn't be so "destroyed" in the movie, for what they were trying to do - rewrite the plot so some characters would change and some would develop more - they screwed up a lot of the facets of the characters, including Brera. They were trying to change a lot of the mysterious or villains into protagonists. A good example is Grace. A bad example is Brera, because he gets like fifteen minutes max as a good guy before he blows up Galaxy's control room and dies in the process.

I am aware of the conspirators in the series... however, Grace was their "face" and she was awesome that way.

That Leon was such a sucky villain is what makes his weak perfomance so enjoyable to watch... in comparison to Grace, you can see where his strings are getting pulled all the time. That is what makes taking Grace out of the villain picture such a bad idea in the movie, IMHO.

And agreed about Brera.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

I'll say right now that television has never exactly been fond of following the "reality" part of life. Take for example, I just watched a movie tonight where they were driving a bus with a bomb on it and it had to stay at 50mph. I was wondering when they were gonna run out of gas, considering it had been traveling for 2hrs without stopping, and quite a few miles. Finally, the main character punches a hole, by accident, in the fuel tank. THEN they address it. But the tank is half empty after seven circles around the free way, airport runway, and through many major streets in the city. How is that logically possible?

So, to sum it up, when you take things at face value in series and movies, you have to question why they don't think of certain things like that. And it's simple: it's the writers doing it to sped the plot along or avoid more conflicts to otherwise harm the plot. However, it just makes the plot look worse because they don't address those possible issues.

In this case, Mishima doesn't investigate his close bodyguards but instead men he knows are Grace's. So someone was bound to be left behind to leak information. Last I check, Mishima wasn't a cyborg and he didn't call in reinforcements from the N.U.N.S.

The whole thing about stories is that a good writers will try to give you the plot critical information explicitly and stuff that could be inferred they try to point out via little hints. If they leave things out completely, it is most reasonable to assume that they didn't happen.

And even with the errors and missteps the writers had in the series, they are very good at their job and at adding those little hints of information if the viewer is supposed to assume something happened.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

He didn't have a choice. He was asked by Sheryl to rescue Ranka. But that's just icing on the cake. Had he turned tails and decided not to fight, he would be killed either way. Had he decided to run away from Frontier, he would be an open target for other units that would consider him a traitor or pirate. He had no choice but to fight and die. As did all the soldiers. Did you really think they (as well as him) looked like they wanted to truly fight or die in 24's briefing? No. They didn't. They don't have a choice. When the army calls you, you get no say in the matter in emergency times. My dad could even vouch for this, for he's a retired soldier.

His movie version, however, is given the choice by multiple people, for Alto hasn't joined per se, the army. Listen to Ozma's comments very carefully: "you can leave whenever you want to, no one's stopping you." However, in the real army, when in times of peril, you are on call no matter what, even if you're on leave. So Alto choosing to give his life up selflessly in the movie is noble.

I'm not saying his series persona did not do things that were noble, but given the situation and state Frontier was in, it was hardly him "choosing" to do so unlike the movie where he WAS given a choice.

And I don't have the slightest problem with him not choosing. My admiration for his series incarnatio is not mainly for being inquisitive and having a big choice, but for taking up the banner for Frontier and his friends and for his loyalty.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

I noticed that was something significant about 16 and 17. Ranka is often seen looking away as if thinking, especially when about to enter the studio to test Aimo O.C. out. It is obvious that she is either suspicious of Grace or the whole project together. I think Ranka has a right to be given that she's in the middle of everything unlike others who brush it off.

I mostly read that as her having doubts about herself, insecurity and so on.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

I guess we've reached a stalemate then?

I'd say so. ^^

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Yeah, you shouldn't; cause given how the Frontier movies went, Sheryl should've been put in the electric chair the day after she was put in prison. I'm shocked she was allowed to see Ranka and also stay alive for at most two maybe four days at most. So regular politics don't apply here. We go by what they say Frontier's rules are. And Glass said them. During a state of war, spies are to be executed without trial. Look back at the movie again before you reply to this.

Oh, I know that this what happened in the movie. I only question how plausible that whole thing is. I'd say that the universe of the movie has much more tension between fleets than what we see in the series. While in the series people were genuinely shocked at Galaxy working against them, in the movie everybody in the higher echelon of power already assumes the worst about Galaxy. That's quite a difference in interstellar politics.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Then blackmail.

Very probably.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Oh, I doubt they would've held her friends and family away from her because they'd likely find out that stunts her powers. However, they might do something else like find the person Ranka loves the most (Alto) and say if she doesn't do what they say, they'll murder Alto and make it look like an accident, then go down the list. Though I doubt Macross would ever get that dark, it would've made her a prisoner and a much easier person to control. (I'm sure the government did not like her skipping out on the parade. )

Well, we are getting a lot into "what if" territory here. ^^

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Well, that's what I mean when I say "selfish" for her series self, because that makes her human. And so she is far above her movie persona which came off as too selfless and a bit God-like in my opinion.

Same here, although I wouldn't use "selfish" to describe her.

Originally Posted by LoveMeKags

Like I said above, Sheryl came off too God-like for me in the movies. That's why, when she won the triangle, I was going "huh?" She seemed too different from her series self. Maybe once or twice before she realized she was ill, she showed her series self of teasing Alto and being playful with both main characters, but that was it. She rarely showed it. (And I'm talking about full scenes, not just moments.) The change to Sheryl was drastic, which is why I believe most AR fans are upset. She has become more like Ranka in a way (and you could take that as either persona) with the way she interacts with other characters around her. That is a significant difference from her series persona that took all characters at face value and never really got to know them like she does Ozma (whom, in the series, didn't know Sheryl one bit).

All characters changed between series and movie. While I liked Rankas changes, Alto and Sheryl were better, IMHO, in the series.

Originally Posted by Tak

Ok, you two really need a room.

At least I have the common decency of not revealing the more raunchy details of my harem!

- Tak

I'm just enjoying a good natured discussion. Hey, shows how much I have mellowed out over the years. At least as long as we don't start putting in question that Sheryl and Alto ended up together.