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Old 2012-12-11, 04:50   Link #31338
Wanderer
Goat
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gnawing away at Rokkenjima
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
How did he address the Love Duel and Logic Error?
He accounts for the logic error this way: When Erika declares that she is sealing the two rooms, he calls it a magic scene since Dlanor and her subordinates are involved. He says that the process must have actually taken a little time, and before Erika seals the cousins' room, but after the location check, Kanon left through the window. He accounts for Kanon's death by claiming that Erika shot him.

He doesn't even account for the love duel. He might say he does, since he talked about it, but he really doesn't. He actually introduces the topic by saying something along the lines of "Since ShKanon is impossible, an alternative explanation must be found", which basically means he approaches the whole issue of the love duel by assuming his own premise (which, to be fair, he came to for reasons not having to do with the love duel). Of course this means that he is ignoring anything in the love duel that points towards ShKanon simply by default, which is utterly ridiculous if you ask me. He does offer an alternative interpretation (I call it that rather than an "explanation") for the duel, where Rosa's (Beatrice's), George's, and Jessica's romantic interests are all incompatible situations and therefore only one of them can "win". There are so many awkward things about this interpretation, though, and I don't feel like listed all of them (unless someone would like me to).

When I first was reading Umineko, I didn't give ShKanon a second thought. While reading the love duel I was like "wtf really...how does that even work?" I didn't really want to believe it, but I had to. As far as I'm concerned, the love duel is the finisher for ShKanon and there is no room left for debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblue1 View Post
Personally I can accept the Nanjo is doing it for money for his grandchild, I can swallow the George is actually insane so all those pretty words about challenging the world to be with Shannon meant actually backstabbing the world do death to get Shannon but the whole about Rosa murdering everyone to revive Kuwadorian Beatrice and because she loves Battler is... hum... I've no words...
And again poor Maria gets completely ignored by her mom.
Actually, I find Rosa the least implausible of the 3, since her motive is basically identical to Yasu's. In fact, in KNM's theory, Rosa is Yasu, or at least imagines herself to be. Yasu is supposedly an invented friend of Shannon's by Rosa through which Rosa projects herself.

George's I find worse, since George doesn't even have a motive. What does mass murder have to do with him marrying Shannon?

And Nanjo's motive is probably the worst. Not only is it paper thin and already thoroughly refuted by another poster here, Nanjo'd probably be better off siding with the victims and just asking for the money later anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjblue1 View Post
I really wish he would trascript his solution though because it seems unfair to discuss it only by knowing bits and pieces of it but for a not English speaker like me listening to such a long English video would only mean a headache.
You can ask him for it. He probably typed it out before he even released it as a video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rogerpepitone View Post
My big problem with Umineko is that I don't know what I know.

As Ryu did things, if I think a hypothesis may be completely wrong, I don't have any place to start.
I think the point is that basically all of Umineko is testimony. It's the "Reader's" testimony. This is, at least in principle, pretty clearly spelled out in EPs 3 and 4.

So yeah I don't really mind about what he did with the various of the Golden Witch stories. Then again, that he dangles a bunch of 1998 stuff in front of us that we also can't rely on is pretty frustrating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haguruma View Post
I think the first story is not only the magical narrative, but what she wanted people to see and to believe. The second story is what she wanted to imply, her confession and her wish to be found. And the third story, I think, is what she actually thought of those people, the unconscious aspect of her own writing in which she expressed all her uncontrolled emotions.
I think this is an excellent interpretation.

I would also like to add that Dlanor said that wanted us to get to the core of Beatrice's story as another woman.
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