[Sunder the Gold]

Originally Posted by tusjecht

Unless, Gold, it's like Faker: Taker was able to copy his opponent's abilities at first, until he levelled up and spent the bonus on DC instead.

Oh, yeah. That WAS one of my theories.

A Level 4 bonus would definitely be somewhat appropriate for an effect that continues to hinder an opponent even after a duel or a resurrection in the UNF.

And if Demonic Commandeer could still retain copies, it would make some sense that the move requires a full Special Meter to pull off. Since each successful use would make you stronger for future fights, the system punishes you with at least one extremely difficult first battle... or however many it takes to copy an ability.

But...

...but it still breaks the rules. Copying and stealing are definitely distinct abilities, the discussion in the fanfic thread has pretty much gone through most points that could be raised. So that might mean author threw out his own rulebook.

If by this you mean that a "Magikarp Power" shouldn't belong in a game like Accel World, I have to agree.

It doesn't matter how weak an avatar is forced to start or how hard they have to work to get there, if an avatar is given the ability to exceed the potential of their level in any way, there would be no point to "Equal Level, Equal Potential" at all.

Dusk Taker's ability allowed him to take Aviation, an ability that required all of Silver Crow's potential, and still had room left for a number of powerful items that Silver Crow could not possess, on top of his ability to steal other, better items as the opportunity or need arose.

Random drops and gifted items can likewise empower an avatar beyond their level, but the difference is that ANYONE can benefit from these, and no one started any weaker than anyone else.


And, by the way, my complaints are laid equally at Copying as well, not just stealing. But with one possible exception.

If Copying can be done as a normal move, without any Special Meter and at the start of a fight, then a copycat has a much better chance of fairly acquiting himself, even in his very first fight.

It's still a Magikarp Power, but not nearly as bad. Especially since, as the opponent is not denied their own power, the copycat runs into the very real and serious problem that he will basically NEVER have decent odds of beating his target at their own game. A Yellow copycat can't match Cyan Pile in a pile-driver duel.

Even if the Copycat had a supplemental ability -- for example, improving the power of a stolen ability by 20% -- the opponent still has superior experience, and all of their other abilities are supplementing the central ability. Cyan Pile is strong enough to lift the pile-driver and to withstand its recoil, and he has the armor to survive a slugging match. A Yellow avatar will not have these advantages, so an unfamiliar and unsuitable weapon doesn't grant good odds even with a 20% power boost.

There's a reason why F/SN's Archer was the weakest as well as the strongest Servant. He had to play a careful Paper-Scissors-Rock game against any other Epic Spirit; trying to Mirror Match them would only end in shame.

while I didn't see it in the anime, LN says Crow must spend SP to fly

Yup. He says he needs to build his gauge up to carry Lotus, Pile and Rain across the UNL. In his fight with Rain, he took slight damge from Rain's venier thruster -- just enough SP for flying out of his collapsing building. Then Rain gave him more SP when she shot off his arm.

In his first fight with Dusk Taker, he breaks the headstones first before flying. And of course, his gauge was full when he first used his wings against Cyan Pile.

he possibly spent SP per second to steal the move.

I doubt it. When you start a fight without a special move against Cyan Pile, Pile always has the option of Lightning Cyan Spike. Especially if he used destruction bonus to fill his Special Meter first.

Against odds like those, Noumi's reward for surviving long enough to use his Special Ability was to turn the tables. Whereas before, he had nothing like the Pile-Driver or Lighnting Cyan Spike, now Cyan Pile is in Dusk Taker's shoes.

Demonic Commandeer is not cheating, as far as that goes. Turning the tables in such a fashion is very fair. The one who starts with nothing gains everything; the one who starts with everything loses everything.

The problem is in how it can continue to deny a victim their powers. The even greater problem is in how it allows Dusk Taker to retain the stolen power, and then to keep gaining powers beyond his Level Potential.

Well, actually, did he?

Aviation is more than just Silver Crow's wings; it's also in his Kick and Punch attacks; especially the Punch, when it unfolds and unleashes a jet. Silver Crow's SP plummets rapidly whenever he uses Aviation to supplement a Punch or Kick. His wings turn those normal moves into Special Moves.

To my knowledge, we never see Dusk Taker do this. Maybe he just didn't want to. Maybe he immediately went for someone's Dropped Item firearm, which had a "scar investment" low enough that he could squeeze it in around the wing's.

Or maybe Dusk Taker really couldn't duplicate all of Silver Crow's true power, and if they had both fought with wings, Silver Crow's Punches and Kicks would not be put to shame by Pyro Dealer.