[Alhazred]

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Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

All good until "centre of the universe." (You're also wrong on accelerator being able to move everything relative to the centre of the universe. There is no centre of the universe. Everything else is fine.)

You've got me there. Truthfully, i haven't taken a physics course in over a decade. Much of my point still stands, though; compared to, say, the center of our own galaxy, the angular velocity of the earth is pretty mind-boggling.

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

-the earth takes it's frame of reference to be zero. Then accelerator changes the vector of the building and it moves. To the earth, the building just moved 2 kilometres.

-to the building itself though, it would set it's own frame of reference to be zero, and suddenly, to the building, it appears that the earth just rotated underneath it 2 kilometres.

The earth would say the building moved, and the building says the earth moved, but both frames are valid and equal. Simply choosing a frame of reference doesn't make it special.

The point i was making was that the vector changed relative to the earth, but not necessarily relative to Accelerator, invalidating your later assertion that 'any esper powers that move things just goes, "move this in relation to me.",' unless Accelerator is presumed to have the ability to alter the vector of the entire universe external to that building (possible, i guess, if all frames of reference are equal, but that makes for a power that could do some catastrophic things on an astronomical scale, unless there are limitations set somehow, which is where the dependence on calculation and understanding come in).

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

Accelerator can't tell a bullet to go "that way" relative to the centre of the universe. There is none.

That point, i will conceded; my bad.

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

Accerator can tell a bullet to go "that way" relative to himself though.

Or, apparently, relative to the earth itself; the impression is given that he can choose. On what scale does that choice end?

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

There's a logical break from where you jump from "bullet goes that way" to "bullet breaks down into subatomic particles and energy." One does not follow the other.

While the bullet is a huge complex system with multiple vectors from the atoms and spinning electrons, to the frame of reference of the bullet, the whole universe is moving towards the bullet. The complex system of "the bullet" is going about it's merry business with all it's internal electron orbiting and so on. When the universe, with accelerator in it, hits the bullet, the bullet sees the rest of the universe bounce away from it uniformly. This frame of reference is just as valid as Accelerator setting himself as an unmoving frame of reference where the bullet is heading towards him, then the bullet is bounced by his power.

And why can he not affect the vectors of subatomic particles within a system? He does it all the time. He's pale because from birth he has been subconsciously altering the vectors of ultraviolet light. The light is not isolated; it interacts with matter in the atmosphere, and is therefore part of a system. The atmosphere is perhaps not as cohesive a system as a bullet, but it is still a system. All matter is technically part of a single system (all objects with mass affect all other objects with mass gravitationally, for instance), but no esper power applies to all matter uniformly and at the same time. Why not?

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

There's no picking a frame of reference, they're all valid. And technically, any esper powers that move things just goes, "move this in relation to me."

See above.

Originally Posted by CrazyPerson

We might need to move this over to the accelerator thread. If you want to, quote my post and just post in the other thread. I'll check both threads for your reply.

I'm not sure its worth belaboring this particular point much further. The definition of accelerator's power is particularly troublesome because vectors change based on the location of the 'observer.' The moment he decides, 'the observer doesn't have to be me' it all gets very messy... unless of course we want to say that it observer is always him, and he is simply able to affect the entire universe at once.