Quote:
Originally Posted by ccie20012
Love does not demand an explanation. It is an axiom in itself.
I love this girl and not love another girl.
Zen loves to Medaka. Zen does not like Emukae.
You go to a restaurant and order the meat.
To you bring the fish and explain that the fish is delicious.
Or even this:
To you bring the fish and require you explain why you want the meat.
But you just want the meat. You do not need to explain it, and you do not need an explanation.
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Haha. First of all, love actually
can be explained completely in the manner of a scientific equation. Factors such as biology, psychology, social/environmental conditions and personality can all be logically synthesized into an explanation for why one person loves another person. It's not that it's impossible to do it; it's just that most people would never bother (and that's okay. Thinking too hard about these kinds of things occasionally leads to some unnatural conclusions. For a large proportion of humanity, the natural loves they develop instinctually are the correct ones that they should live by.).
However, from an
external perspective, when you are
not the person being caught up in wild feelings of love for somebody, you can hardly say that its acceptable for some random pointless and potentially (self-)destructive "love" to be accepted as an axiom. Using your example, if you talk about humans liking meat, the explanations for that are immediately obvious: Meat is nutritious. It tastes good. Humans have evolved towards this kind of inclination. There is no sense that "you do not need an explanation", simply that the explanation is immediately clear to anybody and everybody. However, if instead of cow meat or fish meat you were talking about a person who liked to eat
garbage, no longer would it be valid to say "It's just an axiom, no need to think about it". Whether as the garbage eating individual him/herself, or as an impartial external observer, circumstances would warrant that
someone begin thinking about the reasons and correctness of the situation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by willx
@Sol Falling - this is my first LONG post in a LONG time :P
You're not understanding my point and you're missing something fundamental. My Medaka quote is something SHE said, but can NOW be applied to HIM.
Why does he love her? Is she special, amazing and an absolutely awesome existence? Yes. Does she have some terrible flaws? Yes. Does he love her for and as well as despite those qualities? Maybe .. but your question is WHY?!
The answer?
1) This isn't romantic, but is simply something that happens in the world -- Time. They are and have been partners for a very long time.
2) Because as a child he loved her, childishly. As a young boy, he loves her, as a young boy can. And as a man that's been close to her, and that can still see her as a woman, he .. *ahem* "loves" her that way too (she is hot after all!).
3) He's also human (and selfish) -- he thought about making her new purpose in life be his girlfriend, but decides that it's more important for her to be her - this event is now a catalyst: "While you search for yourself .. be beside me .. and let me be beside you (recite to yourself in cool boss sounding voice)"
And about Emukae, having personally dated a number of girls over the years I can answer you this -- it's not right or wrong to pick one girl over another .. but it's incredibly easy to choose between those you'd like to date (or do more ..) and those that you don't.
Don't even need to think about it. It's like breathing. Heck, you can date them on a whim and leave them if you don't like them -- but if there's no chemistry .. it ends. Quick.
..Now, that doesn't mean you don't feel like crap for dumping or hurting a girl and perhaps may pay penance for it .. not sure I'd gut myself though.
tl;dr - (revised) Zenkichi: "Do you think I'd ever like it if you left me [Medaka]? I wouldn't like it! I'd [never give up]! (..and continue to be a boss!)"
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The question at stake here is precisely whether you think factors like "time" or "chemistry" or "sexual attraction" are enough to make Zenkichi
stabbing himself believable. Do you
really think those are the reasons Zen prefers Medaka over Emukae? Do you
really think Zenkichi feels those reasons strong enough to stab himself before even thinking of just having a normal friendship with Medaka, or a romantic relationship with Emukae?
Like, I can buy that Zen finds Medaka more sexually interesting than Emukae. That is certainly the order of my own preferences. However, the idea of Zenkichi gutting himself over something like that would make him plain retarded, period.
As for something as simple as chemistry, you can already see from Zenkichi's words when Kumagawa failed to heal his wound that this rejection of Emukae is something he means to carry eternally. Zenkichi's devotion to Medaka is clearly at a level that the question isn't whether Zenkichi
wants to be with Emukae, but that he
can't even be with Emukae.
The point is, all signs so far point to Zenkichi's love for Medaka arising from a far deeper aspect of his personality, than simply "I've been in love with her all this time, might as well keep doing it" or "I'm sexually attracted to her". Medaka was, and continues to be simply "special" to Zenkichi for reasons he cannot explain or fathom, and which Nishio has not begun to explore yet. However, at the time that Nishio
does begin to explore it, he will also have the opportunity to break it down. In particular, there is a high chance that Nishio
will break it down because Zenkichi's "Medaka is special" belief fundamentally contrasts and contradicts with Medaka's "No one is special" axiom.
The existential/nihilistic perspective of the universe Medaka is moving towards (i.e. "no one is special") is the most simple and natural conclusion that any logical mind will eventually come to. I have a bias towards it, I believe Nishio shares a bias towards it, and it's also explicitly the philosophy which was presented by three year old Kumagawa. Based on this philosophy, I believe Nishio will eventually crush Zenkichi's naive/unthinking conclusion that "Medaka is special". At the same time however, what Medaka
is, and all of the other characters in Medaka Box
are, is "human". That is a strong enough basis for all of the characters to come to share "empathy", and "empathy" alone is sufficient for a story to ensure a happy ending. Whereas Medaka will always be indebted to Zenkichi for guiding/anchoring her along her path to becoming human, in the end she will become independent of him; and at that time Zenkichi might find that Emukae is more deserving of his empathy. The naive idea of "fate" or "special" individuals, however, is almost certainly the concept which this manga was specifically conceived of to criticise.
To reiterate the point: Medaka Box as a narrative by Nishio Ishin was not conceived to be a "romance" between Medaka and Zenkichi; neither was it conceived as a story to say "Hey! Medaka is special". The central point Medaka Box's narrative is working towards is actually the philosophical statement "no one is special", even in
spite of all of these ridiculous categories of "Pluses" or "Minuses", or metafictional "Main Characters"; this will be followed by a secondary corollary, equally valid for all characters, that "everyone is human".