[Hunter]

Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu

Performing thread necromancy here, better late than never right (or maybe not, whatever, don't care. :P)

It's better I assure you and with your parenthesis maybe hinting at an edgy answer I'm doubly overjoyed!

I don't think so. I don't see were it was ever stated that Danzou and the elder simply overrode Sarutobi's authority. I said numerous times that Sarutobi didn't support the decision. Maybe he never even officially gave them a green light to perform the kill. Personally, I believe he acted Pontius Pilate and say he was simply not going to play a part, but I don't see that as him being powerless against Danzou's decision. The only way this thing could've happened is if Sarutobi allowed it--not approve it -- but allow it nonetheless. We saw that was the case. If Sandaime had no real authority over Danzou, Itachi wouldn't have asked Sandaime to protect Sasuke from him.

Something like that? (chap399-400 about the quarantine and kill order respectively if you wonder)
So yes it's pretty clear Sarutobi disagreed with everything Danzou and the Elders wanted but his voice mattered not and his opinion ended up being irrelevant. He wanted none of that and he failed.

I see what you did there, Hunter. Nice phrase of words "butchering" and "brainwashing". Brings up images of Danzou putting puppies in a bag and throwing them into a wood chipper.

I'd say my description was accurate and even toned down compared to the situation at hand. If it only brings up images of animal cruelty to you then I obviously failed to convey what Danzou actually did because it was considerably worse than a few dead dogs.
And quotation marks, really? You think brainwashing is too strong a word to describe the fact that Danzou took young orphan and made them murder one another to raise them into emotionless drones living and dying at his whim? That to force them to slaughter their own comrades to make them more pliable to his orders wasn't butchery?
I'm curious, what words would you use then? Enhanced education?

This is the ninja world though. Many of the practices are Spartan, even cruel, by our standards. Children are sent into war. It's implied Ibiki performs interrogations that would violate every Geneva convention standard known.

Technically, the chuunin exams are taking kids who barely reached puberty putting them into survival contest where it's likely at least a few won't survive, then pitting them each other in battle where even though killing isn't encouraged, it's completely possible with no penalty and maiming/torture/inflicting brutal injuries on opponents are all completely ok. Wait, not "technically". I meant "literally". Yeah, and no one has a problem with this.

They are cruel by our standards but Danzou is cruel by their. What he did in Konoha is what made the Mist village being known as the Bloody Mist, the ninja who lived through this still call it a reign of terror.
And that's without going into the fact that Konoha is consistently depainted into a much nicer place.

But yes. Danzou's actions are intolerably cruel. I wasn't "carefully" avoiding it. I don't see how it's relevant. What of it? Like you said many characters knew about it. If Danzou killing orphans was such common knowledge, how come Tsunade didn't have Danzou thrown out when she came into power? Don't recall Shikaku bringing up the fact that Danzou kill orphans and brainwash his men in the meeting when he was opposing Danzou as Hokage. If he did, it didn't seem to bother the daimyo much. Why is Sarutobi's character the only one called into question here?

So my answer remains the same. There seems to be "common knowledge" that Danzou did these things, but how much of this actually sustainable fact as opposed to just "word is, this is what goes on in there" (from the perspective of the characters, I mean, we know all that to be true of course)? Danzou was a master at covering his tracks and keeping the worst of his crimes a secret. I already acknowledge that Sarutobi should've kept tighter reigns on Danzou. But I think the story is far from portraying him as Danzou's bitch, letting him get away with anything. If that was the case, Danzou would'nt have been so desperate to take his position. He could've easily used Sarutobi as his puppet.

First I'm not sure where you got the "only Sarutobi" thing, I find his successors just as weak as him in this matter. It's just that Sarutobi let it be for decades instead of months and that he was the guy in charge during most of Danzou's nefarious actions so he takes most of the blame.
As far as I'm concerned Tsunade should have executed him after the Sai debacle.

And yes sure Shikaku didn't talk about it, nor did Asuma I guess... Are we to list all the characters who didn't talk about it as if it somehow balanced those who did? Should we forget that Yamato explained it all to team 7 (hell he even told them matter-of-factly that Danzou might try a coup d'etat and end Konoha as they knew it, that's how much Danzou's schemes are common knowledge!) because another character didn't?
His training method wasn't a secret and yet they let him be. Danzou should have been executed or assassinated a long time ago, every breath he took was a testament to the incompetence of Konoha's leaders.

But I do agree with one thing here : your answer does remain the same... Because you still haven't answered my question!
So here it is for the 3rd or 4th times, how do you reconcile Sarutobi's character with the fact that they knew what Danzou did to those kids? Do you think your theory about the lack of absolute proof is enough to explain their inaction?