[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by qno2

Just noticed something interesting in that regard and it reminded me of that imageboard (seacats.com or something) where dozens of Rosatrice followers fell without Shkanon followers even saying anything. Specifically, it reminds me of a certain little monologue:

Yeah, that was a fun little debate, and I liked the writer of that monologue... but isn't "dozens fell" an exaggeration of... irresponsible proportions?

Originally Posted by qno2

Little side note: Though I think I understand what he's playing at, sometimes I still wonder whether what he and I see are really the same things - I just don't think the revelation "EP7-Yasu is possibly more about prime and thus the author, whose self-insert is the culprit in the stories" is that much of a ... breakthrough.

I think his revelation was more meta than that. It's more like he realized that it doesn't matter how ridiculous ShKanon is, because if that's the story the author finds meaningful and wants to express, then that's that; and he realized that this very concept was what Ryukishi was expressing with Umineko. Well, that's what I think. Obviously, it seemed difficult for him to put his revelation into words.

ShKanon people, although diverse themselves, all understand Umineko on some kind of meta-level. Anti-ShKanonism is the result of a deficiency in meta-understanding.

Originally Posted by Kealym

Not necessarily. In worlds where Eva dies, she'd almost certainly end up with the Sumadera's (she was staying with Kyrie's parents during the conference after all, IIRC).

I believe it was Kyrie's dad who we're talking about, who was supposedly a decent person and a black sheep of the Sumaderas... Though I doubt he could have protected Ange from the rest of the Sumaderas like Eva could.

Originally Posted by Kealym

There was no knock, or letter.

No knock, sure, but why no letter? The red syntax seems to imply that the letter at least exists, and there's no need doubt its existence to make the lie interpretation work, as it could have simply been written by anyone in the parlor. In fact, it would be foolish for them to lie about that letter-and-knock event and not have the necessary after-the-fact prop.

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix

The wording 'the clock struck twelve' and not 'it was 12 am' So it could have actually been 2200 it could have also been 1900, no one ever says what time it actually was. I already read that part of the manga btw.

Yes, but even then who is eligible to have knocked in the hallway, 24:00 or not?

Originally Posted by qno2

It's the power and determination of love!

Otherwise the problem arises how she hid the weapon from the all-seeing eye of our incompetent detective.

Since when was Battler all-seeing?

Originally Posted by qno2

Or we argue about the semantics between "murderer" and "killer", sure.

Don't. Those two words are often translated from the same word in the source Japanese.

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Since the overall intrigue of EP5 is being discussed and there seem to be a few new people around, I'm going to reintroduce a theory I've mentioned before (hopefully in a more organized, more convincing way).

Now, in EP5 there's that scene where Erika and Battler are in the middle of solving the epitaph and searching for the path to the gold, and then Battler has a vision of Kinzo, who points the way for him. But we also know that No person would mistake Ushiromiya Kinzo by sight. So then we know for a fact that when Battler told Erika that "grandfather pointed the way", he was lying.

Nothing special so far, I know, since this logic was all explained as part of the EP5 ura anyway. However, if you think about what Battler was lying about, and the possible reasons for why he would lie about it, there are some very surprising implications.

First, I'll re-summarize the scene here, with the unreliable parts in gold:

Spoiler for summary:

Erika and Battler are at the chapel and just pushed in the final letter for solving the epitaph. Battler observes out loud that Erika has a crappy personality, and Erika admits this openly. Erika goes into how entertaining it will be to see the family squabble over the gold, and begins to talk about her predictions in detail. Dispirited by the revelation that the gold will lead to family infighting, Battler turns his back on her and, not listening to her "mumble on", seems to enter some kind of trance. He sees Kinzo, who points out the way to the gold to Battler. Battler falls out of his trance, just barely catching the end of Erika's spiel. Battler then says he's found the way. Erika expresses surprise that Battler was observant enough to notice the turned lion statue. Battler says that it was Kinzo who showed him.

As for what Battler is lying about, it's how he came to be aware that one of the lion statues was facing a new direction. So then here's the important question that no one seems to think about: What was Battler actually thinking and/or looking at during the above summary's gold section? And whatever it was, why did Battler lie about it?

You could suppose that he was simply contemplating the new revelation that the gold would cause problems in his family, when he coincidentally saw the lion statue turned, then mentioned it to Erika (despite having just realized that finding the gold is actually a bad thing), but since he was a bit mad at her decided to tease her a little bit by lying about having met Kinzo.

Possible, of course, but I think this theory sucks. It has too many weird jumps in Battler's thought process. So, here's the theory I like:

Spoiler for drumroll please:

Battler already knew where the gold was, but was pretending not to in front of Erika.

Thoughts?