[Toku]

Originally Posted by Renall

Are you completely dense? That works no differently for Kinzo, save that we must overcome a different type of restriction. And it doesn't matter what influence Kinzo had on prior games. Erika had no influence on prior games (stated in red, even) and she was allowed to influence subsequent ones. Make Kinzo alive, and now he can influence them. This isn't brain surgery.

Kinzo's life or death status wasn't actually confirmed in ep6. It's implied he's dead, but it's not clear and wasn't important to Battler.

Erika may not have had any influence on previous games, but this is irrelevant because her existence in future games hadn't been denied.

Look. I'll go ahead and explain the nature of our argument for you. I am proposing that "Red Truths can and do apply as laws" in an effort to make it not be worthless. You are trying to prove me wrong. However, you have provided no proof and are instead giving me a theory which allows you to disregard my Red Truth. This is completely useless because neither of our theories have been disproven, which allows both of them to exist at the same time.

My goal is not to disprove your theories. Therefore, I don't need to respond to them. You're free to believe whatever you want.

Put a detective in Battler's ep8 game. Who or what does he see? Explain the narrative of what actually happened there.

I'll wait.

Irrelevant. My point was merely that what we saw were illusions. I gave evidence from the text to back up this claim. My point still stands, whether I explain what actually happened or not.

A declaration of intention cannot fix the truth of subsequent actions. Thus, the statement is not predictive at all.

It's a Devil's Proof. There's nothing which states that she never carried this action out.

Whoa whoa whoa, what? Just because they're meaningless statements doesn't mean they're not true, according to you. So please, explain to me the truth value of "ihihihihihihi."

She laughed. The fact that she laughed is Truth. It doesn't matter, but she put it in Red because it put emphasis on it.

This statement is moronic and irrelevant. Erika never sees Kinzo, but is allowed to speculate that he's alive. This should by itself be barred, according to your own flawed logic. But it's not, it's allowed. Why? Because we're somehow permitted to assume, at least in the context of the arguments in ep5, that Kinzo may be alive. The fact that we know he isn't cannot be proved, and Erika is allowed to make use of that because Battler has no declarative evidence to the contrary. Instead, he has to present a corpse (which does not prove Kinzo was already dead, just that the corpse is dead now) and gold it away as Kinzo's.

Of course, there's nothing saying that you can't use a lie in your arguments. However, once someone proves that what you said is a lie, your argument will fall apart.

According to my theory, it's perfectly easy for me to prove that Kinzo is dead. Kinzo is already dead at the starting time for all games! You see the advantage of my theory? It makes things a lot more certain. With your theory, Red Truth is all but useless. So, of course, this doesn't prove anything for you.

I wouldn't, but Beatrice would. Are you telling me Beatrice can force herself not to do things now? If Beatrice slaps a living Kinzo in her next game, is she Logic Erroring herself? It'd be idiotic to suggest she would. All she has to do is say she changed the premise "for this game."

Of course not. On the Fantasy side of the story, she can slap a living Kinzo all she wants.

The two are mutually exclusive. It can't be "simply" true if it's subject to context that changes its meaning and is open to interpretation. If the red truth were "simply" true, we couldn't say Kanon is dead. But we can... subject to some pretty extreme levels of justification.

It creates uncertainty for us, because we can't exactly prove what the speaker's interpretation of the words were. However, thinking like that will only make you run around in circles. Usually, the interpretations of the words are straightforward. It's usually only when it comes to things like ShKanon that it becomes weird.