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Old 2012-07-04, 16:07   Link #88
Flower
Blooming on the mountain
 
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Deep in their roots, all flowers keep the light....
Hmm ... it seems that the difference in looking at this may come from our emphasis of angle (and maybe the person we are most "identifying with" or "trying to defend").

I am definitely approaching the story and the interaction between Irisu and Oreki from Oreki's p.o.v. You seem to be arguing for the moment from Irisu's - things like "if I was in Irisu's shoes" and asking others what they "would have done if they were in Irisu's shoes". When ReFl gave an answer what he would have done you commented that you did not feel it would have been effective.

And I guess for me the issue lies near this. The primary focus/issue in this situation (and I would even argue in many RL situations) should not be "effectiveness". Effectiveness is important, of course. But when faced with an issue of "should I manipulate and deceive this young man so that I can achieve the result I want so I can fulfill my responsibilities, live up to my reputation and look good in the eyes of others?" I feel that the choices she made were morally wrong.

And this was Irisu's main motive - Oreki's sister called her on it when she confronted her with trying to manipulate her as well and said: "you sure know how to help yourself under the pretext of helping someone else." To this Irisu in a somewhat agitated mode replied with: "my priority has always been to ensure the success of the project". If that doesn't spell it out Irisu's approach I don't know what else can.

There is nothing wrong with asking him to write the story. But that is not the issue I have a problem with. There was something wrong in the way in which she asked (if you can call it truly asking and not a manipulated conversation designed to achieve per-determined results).

I would even go a bit further. The author of the novels (of which the anime is a very good adaptation imo btw) does not outright "take sides" in this case, but he does spell out the fact that Irisu's main motive was self-serving at the end, so he does present the material from a certain perspective, and imo he spells out that such an approach is, in the end assessment, not one that is desirable. I happen to agree with that assessment.
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