[arkhangelsk]

Originally Posted by tshouryuu

Right now I only have a hypothesis. When I have an actual equation for calculating it, I'll let you know.
Ark, don't be rude. Just because you don't believe in it doesn't mean its asinine. Also inertial damping is fantasy science and not back by any hard science as well. Besides how does inertial damping even work against impacts? As far as I know, it only prevent people from feeling the effects of sudden acceleration and deceleration not protect against actual impacts. Also there is not a single piece of evidence, I believe, of any active defenses shown protecting their backs when mages actually get slammed into buildings.

1) And something that results in reduced total quantity of force and pressure with increasing input isn't an act of pure ludicrious fantasy?
2a) It is Tk3997's theory, not mine. You can ask him for those details. Frankly, I don't like using inertial dampeners as a first choice myself due to fantasy factor, though as I said it is a unique weakness to his theory.
2b) Nevertheless, when you impact the ground, you decelerate. If you can somehow prevent that, then you can survive.
3) There's even less evidence of defenses that are vulnerable only to low speed attacks. All we are sure is that the mage somehow survived through a cloud of smoke, in which any of our three theories could have happened. I like my theory because it requires the least new fantasy elements. All it needs is a practical, real-world application of basic physics along with the already clearly established fantasy of barriers / shields.

Intense indoctrination will only work to a certain point.

Add the lack of alternative teachings.

Also I said kinetic energy is bled off to the atmosphere and never did I say the energy is transferred to the mage.

You have insisted that the mage is safer from higher KE situations than lower ones. The consequence of this is that the amount of energy and force that does not get absorbed by the defensive complex and gets through to the mage decreases as the inputs increase.

Now, good luck defining a mechanism where KE is not only bled off to the atmosphere (which by itself is not that hard, you can turn into into work heating by deformation and vent it to the atmosphere), but less energy and force has to reach the mage as energies and forcesget higher.

The thing is Quattro told Deici to fire not Jail. Jail only said cannon fire wouldn't kill Vivio if she really is the vessel of the saint. Jail did not tell Deici to shoot.

Well, if Scarlietti actually objected, he wouldn't have let them get away with the shot no? And why else will Dieci be there if not to ambush the helo.

What are you trying to say here?

I meant to say that the TSAB will come down on them like a sack of bricks.

Maybe true but they would still have a chance of escaping. If the gun is effective against mages then shooting is an option.

Your chances of ultimate escape go way down if the police suddenly decide to throw everything they have at you.

Jail uses missiles on his type 2 drones. He threaten the whole of Midchilda, engaged in illegal research, attacked Ground HQ etc... and what did he get? He got imprisoned. Precia caused a dimensional incident due to her illegal experiments and she only got exiled. Now you're telling me a criminal with a gun will get even worse then that? Sorry, but that is not believable.

The point is what the gun will do to the base of national security.

This doesn't stop her knights from actually requesting for actual armour. Hayate can always refuse.

The Master has made her Decision.

This is way too idealistic. Is there even a real life equivalent to what you said?

Something like the sakoku (sp) of Tokugawa eras. They actually did manage to get almost all the guns.

That is your opinion only. You do not have hard facts to back it up as well.

Neither do you. All you have is your fantasies of them having to have an anti-bullet capability with their barrier jackets, and you insist on doing it in the most scientifically implausible way.

Different places train their troops differently is all I will say.

We were willing to buy that at the end of A's. Not at the end of StrikerS. At least ask questions! Three months is a length more suitable for boot camp. Even the Soviets use 6 to train a NCO specialist (who is horribly overspecialized and perhaps just outright poorly trained by Western standards) and they are working with a 2 year conscription period forcing them to get training over with ASAP so they can get some use out of the conscript.

Because she loves her "mother" and will do anything she says.

Wouldn't it be quicker to say "Strip"?

Not the inner layer itself?

No one really knows what it is. It clearly isn't the inner layer, though. Personally, I vote to leave it a shadow.

Evidence?

Let's start with the bug we are discussing. Even if we can agree that only the outer layer is breached, it was breached by wind. To decide that those things are going to stand up to bullets anytime soon is asinine.

How is it restricted?

I've explained it at least three times in this thread. In short, it involves being tougher than the bullet so the KE goes to deform the bullet. However, a BJ that's cuttable by windblast simply does not qualify for this.

Again lack of evidence as mention somewhere above.

Not a problem unique to my theory. It does require the fewest fantasy elements.

Fantasy science as well.

Not a problem unique to his theory, though it is a fantasy element, it is no more of a pipe dream than yours. And the fact that even science fiction that will employ that fantasy device will not employ a shield that becomes more protective with increasing input should tell you something about what a fantasy your little contraption is.

If there was antimagic coating, then Signum's flame wouldn't surround her blade.

The flame is antimagic in the same sense of the anti-magic ammunition used, not a AMF. That's not difficult to understand, is it?

Clarify for me what you're asking me here.

Your theory basically says that high KE = mage safe. Low KE = mage not safe. Thus, no bullet, low KE blades instead. Thus, you are saying that there is less total energy absorbed by the mage (not just percentage, amount) as KE goes up. You try and relate it to thermal, so tell me, how often this inverse correlation b/w input and output happen?

You're talking only about the visible physical portion. I'm talking about the invisible fields.

I always discuss the entire defensive complex, of which the pseudomatter cloth is a vital part. The bug's blast cut through the entire defensive complex. Whatever fields or barriers you were fantasizing about, the bug cuts through them all.

Your response to Keroko are not exactly relevant to what we are discussing. I already pointed out what I think about TK's theory, its fantasy science as well, not the hard science you're so fond of.

I explain how to use active defense to increase decelerative times and reduce load to Keroko. Tk's theory is not my first choice, but it is no more of a fantasy than yours.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Mackenzie Friend. Legal principle where you can have someone assist you in the trial, despite them not being a qualified lawyer. Chrono is apparently acting as this.

Also, they say that the trial is taking place at TSAB HQ. That'd be where her public defender would show up. Most Navy ships don't deploy with a JAG, y'know; they gotta wait till they get back to base to get the JAG officers to show up.

Since it is the day before the trial, wouldn't most people want to discuss things with the lawyer who will represent them? And actually, Yunno and Chrono, if they are witnesses, shouldn't have too much contact with Fate, who's the defendant. For all you know, Fate, who after all is an AAA mage, will use this opportunity to threaten the two into giving more favorable testimony than warranted.

Originally Posted by AdmiralTigerclaw

What's the matter ark? Feeling left out of the job? Maybe the TSAB don't need them. *Evil Cackle.*

Aah, there goes the protection of the client. This becomes effectively a summary trial. I feel very unsafe.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

I just want to adress this while posting on the run: Your point above indicates an expectation of a level of professionalism and competance at odds with your position of the TSAB being insular idiots. [/i]

Actually, I'm expecting them to at least put in effort. I can almost forgive the TSAB for being incompetent, maybe they just don't even have a clue where to start, but Hayate has links to Earth.

Besides, remember that at their core the TSAB, sadly, are essentially magical riot cops and SWAT. It's very likey there is a school of thought that goes "Why bother study this military crap, it has no relevance to anything we do!"

Those guys don't even take cover ... SWAT people know how to take cover better than those pokeys...

Also, consider that she may well consider, "Eh, I'm in the TSAB, what does this have to do with me? I won't bother." There's precedent for this: Hayate has been shown in the manga refusing to work on taking care of herself in a close-range fight because as she puts it, she's artillery, why does she need to worry about close range? (Paraphrased. Nevermind that in real armies arty gun crews DO train for when the OMGWTF threat suddenly appears. Mulcahy v Ministry of Defence, British Army gun crew in Gulf War 1 blasted a T-72 at point-blank range (for arty, anyway.))

You know that most of us consider that whole farce a character assassination of Hayate, or in the SoD perspective, an unforgivable character flaw.

Hayate's failings as a commanding officer are partly her, and also partly because of the institution which trained her. And since it's mentioned that she apprenticed under Genya, he shares some of the blame as well.

Yes, but Genya's pure Mid (he might have Japanese ancestors but he's all Mid now), and thus locked into their Zeitgeist. It is Hayate's job to bring some of Earth's Zeitgeist into TSAB to improve them.

We have no indications of the TSAB facing an outward threat that would require the sort of planning, wargaming and study that lead to AirLand Battle and FM-23. To be fair, it's possible that the TSAB may have done this, concluded that their main focus should be on constabulary and stabilisation operations, and thus they're geared to that, much as how the US Army has concluded that COIN ops should now be a focus of the Army, resulting in Army-wide dessimation of FM-23.

I'm not demanding they know AirLand battle. I do demand they at least know basic concentration of force (basic principles of War or even schoolyard fighting - are you telling me Mid has no schoolyard fights?)

And as a police force, they should know how to deploy quickly. But no. 3 hours just to prepare a platoon, and a 4th to deliver them (Nanoha A's)..

In the whole Scarlietti incident, even on raised readiness, only one battalion (Nakajima's 308th) even moved into position as a unit. If any other battalions managed to move into position, we never saw them. Definitely no regimental commander showed up, which says that no regiment has deployed as a unit throughout the whole battle. The situation in the sky is the same. Hayate has control, thus implying she's the senior officer. Which means no unit higher than Squadron level managed to deploy as a unit. The Navy managed to move in six ships. Six.

Sigh....