[hyperborealis]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

But the thing is, Madoka does indeed know Homura. She dreams of her and has some deja vu sense around her.

The timelines don't seem to cancel out 100%.

And you seem to misunderstand Madoka. She's not someone who casually makes friends and that's it. The way she acts seems to suggest that she values each one of them a great deal. To the point that her own life is worthless next to theirs and that she would sacrifice herself for anyone of them. So I don't see why a reciprocative bond on Madoka's part is impossible.

As you say, Madoka does indeed value her friends, and a reciprocal relationship with Homura is possible.

All I am saying is that as of yet, nothing in the way that Madoka has treated Homura in any of the timelines suggests that Homura is to her anything other than another good friend among others.

That can certainly change: as Triple R suggests, perhaps when Madoka learns of Homura's great sacrifices on her behalf she will then think of Homura in a new, distinctive way.

But a speculation about the conclusion that requires this more elevated relationship already or subconsciously or retrospectively to exist is simply mistaken.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Madoka having a caring and friendly attachment to a lot of people, while Homura has a passionate attachment to Madoka and Madoka alone, does not preclude the two sharing a particularly deep friendship, or even a romance.

This is of course true.

I wonder why people imagine "a particularly deep friendship" between Madoka and Homura? It must have to do with Homura, I think: she is a heroic figure of tragic love, always trying and failing to protect the person she loves, and yet keeping on with her efforts regardless. I think we want to reward that extraordinary devotion, by envisaging Madoka in a way that she can or will reciprocate Homura's grand passion.

If that is so, all I can say is that this demand from the audience has nothing to do with Madoka herself by definition.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think Madoka was simply stunned by Homura's emotional breakdown in front of her, and didn't know what to make of it, since it was such a sharp contrast to the largely cold Homura of Timeline 5. As such, Madoka placed her focus back on the pressing issue of finding Sayaka and helping her.

Good comeback. I buy it!

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I wouldn't be terribly disappointed if this anime doesn't result in a Homura/Madoka romance, but I don't think it's something that should be completely ruled out, either. I also think that Madoka is not at all the sort of person who would make the kind of very harsh criticisms of Homura that you can picture her making (unless that was
tongue-in-cheek on your part, in which case, very funny ).

I was being funny, but only half so, since the lines from the episode preview are very likely Madoka's, spoken, don't you think, while she criticizes Homura for not doing more to help Sayaka, et al? Should Madoka find out about Homura's efforts on her behalf, I don't think she will simply melt into Homura's arms--the issue of why Homura didn't do more to help Madoka's other friends is still out there.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think that if somebody went to great lengths to try to save Madoka from a very harmful situation (and Homura has unquestionably done that), that Madoka would be very moved by that.

It is certainly possible. There is an opening for the writers to go in this direction.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

No. And you know it, so I don't know why you're asking that. The bond between Homura and Madoka which transcends time is the promise they shared. And note that, since Madoka was the one who requested to be saved, Homura's hope is actually Madoka's hope. So this is actually about Madoka understanding Madoka. Homura is somehow the link between them, the one who carries the promise, which is Madoka's hope.

So, when/if Madoka actually "remembers" Homura, and the promise they shared, she'll be able to understand herself as if she was looking at her own reflection in a mirror, a reflection that is much Homura as is Madoka herself. This concept is great, if you thing about it. Its actual beauty resides in how it shows there's more "magic" in a promise between two friends than it a contract with an emissary of a highly advanced alien race. The fact that this alien has no feelings is the more poignant. It harks back to the fact that in the end, magic is just emotion.

The reason I asked was that I wanted to work out a rationale for why Homura and Madoka should merit the miracle you envisage. Why should this particular shared promise matter, to the point that a miracle is accomplished on its account? Without some sort of context, such a miracle would only be just another deus-ex-machina conclusion. It is easier to accept if there is some sort of strong existing relationship between the two girls.

However, I don't believe such a strong relationship exists, or at least, not one beyond the level of ordinary friendship. It might exist on Homura's side, since she has suffered extraordinarily across the timelines for Madoka's sake. It does not exist however on Madoka's side. That makes the miracle you anticipate either less likely, or that much more miraculous.

I agree with Triple R--your description of Madoka looking at herself through Homura is beautiful and striking. I would love to see this animated.

Originally Posted by Kazu-kun

Don't you think all these things are somewhat related? I mean, you can only act for yourself, rather than letting others act for you, if you are confident that you can actually act for yourself. Otherwise you'd lose before the start. Likewise, you can only make a life-long commitment to another person if you see yourself as that person's equal, otherwise it would be a commitment based on dependence (even if it's only emotional), which can't possible be seen as "growing up".

In the end, a sense of self-worth is the core element of any individual, don't you think?

I listed these modes of growing up since I see them as characteristic of Homura: they describe the particular ways she grows up across the timelines. Her trajectory is also along the arc of self-knowledge, but what Homura learns about herself as a magical girl is terrible and dark.

Homura represents a cautionary tale, to teach us that growing up and gaining self-knowledge are not necessarily positive and fortunate experiences.

I do not believe Homura possesses an elevated sense of self-worth. Much more a core element for her is her iron will.