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Originally Posted by Randrak42
Simple...Natsu is a good person that saw a nice girl desperate and crying over an humiliating event. He is straightforward and not too bright so he acted upon what he thought was right. He acted against an action even ST members thought were wrong. Is it wrong to just burst in making a scene of things? Yes, I cheered and thought it was awesome, but it was certainly NOT the best course of action...and I think everyone agrees (we cheer because it was an awesome scene and typical Natsu, not because it was the smart thing to do) and he should have handled it another way.
If that makes you hate the character...then so be it, it's you opinion. You should know how Natsu acts by now, 282 chapters and this is typical Natsu. If you hate him because of this then I'm actually surprised you don't hate him already because it's standard procedure for him.
I don't deny that he is imposing his ideals onto another guild, however he is also acting upon witnessing how distraught the victim was, regardless of her being at fault for joining the guild in the first place or not (which I still believe she isn't).
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Yeah. I know what you mean. I really can't expect the entire genre to pay attention to the muddled world of moral relativity. However, this is an incident I simply could not ignore, seeing Natsu overstep his bounds to that extent. But believe me, this the first time a situation of this nature occurred. Before, Natsu was just a boring character. Now, he's just outright distasteful. His invasiveness really made me cringe there. Well, anyway, if I expected Natsu to respect social boundaries, I would be dead mistaken, but I believed there were limitations to it at least.
A great thing he could do when he gets stronger is to beat up every single guild he doesn't agree with since that's basically what he did there. It only works since we're we're assured beforehand that Natsu's side is "right".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randrak42
You asked if someone joining FT expecting it to be a brute guild aimed at destruction was at fault...
Pre-timeskip, FT was known for making a mess of things and acting violently. A person joining knowing this is not really at fault for being ignorant, you can't really know a guild (aside from basic "is it a dark guild or not?" and basic public knowledge) until after you join it. That person WOULD be at fault if he stayed in the guild and acted unnecessarily violent even after figuring out how it works.
Yukino was a new member, its doubtful that she knew about how extreme the guild would be before joining and like Krono said, it is unlikely for a guild to go "Hey, you'll be humiliated in very harsh ways if you fail." once someone joins...at most they might have explained that failure means expulsion...not that it means expulsion AND humiliation. Again, remember that she was a recent member.
Would I join a religion I don't believe in? No, but neither did Yukino. She joined a guild she idolized...it's the same as me joining a religion I believe in but only have public knowledge of its actions.
Now, if I join a religion which I believe in but after a while I learn that they secretly, let's say...make human sacrifices! I would attempt to leave (a religious group like this wouldn't let me but this is irrelevant xD) but again, did Yukino know about the extreme actions of the master? If she did know how far he could take his punishments then even I would feel less sorry for her...because she was stupid in staying and left open to receive the same punishment...but I highly doubt a new member like her knew about it at all.
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This is the source of disagreement for us.
You're undervaluing the weight of the decision making process that goes into joining a guild. To you, it's a rather trivial decision akin to finding out what to eat for lunch while to me, it is a commitment that should only be made after making an informed decision. Is joining a guild really not a big deal after all? It seems like you can join any guild that passes your fancy. I didn't think all guilds were as laidback as FT in that respect. Do they really have no way of filtering potential members before awarding them the honor of joining a guild?
Even if you're saying she was ignorant for her entire stay in the guild, it doesn't matter. Like I said, it's an internal matter that should be resolved internally. Sabertooth is doing nothing to threaten the other guilds or society at large so they deserve to that luxury at the very least. Not only were Natsu's actions appalling, they were downright criminal.
Let me clarify something for you. You don't join a religion just by knowing its public actions. You have to internalize every single aspect of its philosophy. You either you believe it, or you don't. That's the thing. Joining a religion isn't a simple matter of "I like what you're doing, so I'll join you". Join a charity if that's the kind of thing you're after, but that kind of reason for joining a religion is stupid, plain and simple. A religion is all about a community sharing a single philosophy while in pursuit of some higher goal. Even if human sacrifice comes it up, it wouldn't matter if you've completely internalized the religion's philosophy.
The crux of our disgreement here is that you treat Yukino's ignorance as inevitable while I treat it as outright stupidity. There's really no way as of yet to tell it from the other, so I propose that we should just agree to disagree for now.