[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

But isn't that a bit odd if you think about it? You discard the genre, but then complain about it not meeting its potential. Its potential to be a better what? Please don't say "a better anime", because that's too subjective. A more effective moe slice-of-life comedy, you mean? That begs the question, what do people who enjoy moe slice-of-life comedies want from a show? If it's a genre you don't like to begin with, how would you know what would make it better, except by making it more like a genre you do like? And if it becomes more like the way you wish it to be, won't it be less like the way it is already? Will it cause people who are currently enjoying the show to enjoy it less? I just can't see how you can talk about execution without tying in to expectations, or talk about expectations without taking into consideration the genre of the show. It's all intrinsically linked. If the show is hitting the right buttons with people, even if it isn't with you, doesn't that mean it's doing just fine the way it is?

I didn't discard the genre? I just said that this show does a poor job in executing it. Yes that's an opinion. When talking about the likes and dislikes of a show, it is all opinion no? When I lay out my points of what I disliked, people can agree or disagree. But if certain others come here wanting to see what people liked and disliked about it, perhaps I can help them not pick up something they didn't want by showing that I dislike certain things that he may dislike as well.

Like I said in my previous post, I have absolutely no problem with the genre in question. If I am talking about execution, I suppose you are right that it is not possible to have no expectations. Maybe subconciously I expected this show to be like 10% moe, 60% slice of life, and 30% comedy, but I ended up getting 60% moe, 5% slice of life, and 35% comedy (And more often than not, the comedy is repetitive, and not very funny). Now I am not writing off this series for the general population, I am only writing it off for people who share similar opinions to me. If one of my friends who likes similar anime comes up to me and asks about this show, I will defintely not recommend it.

The general population can go on and like whatever they want. Doesn't mean I am going to consider something like American Idol as "wonderful" or "entertaining." There are many forms of art out there that the general population wouldn't give so much as a second glance at, but they are still considered great by the elitist cultures out there. How else would the words of great philosphers like Haggel last today if they relied on the masses to keep their ideas alive?

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

So if you combine these two points -- critics are inherently biased by personal preferences, and people differentiate themselves by when they go against the grain -- you get the Internet media-critic culture. This is why it's so frequently out-of-step with popular opinion. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who proclaims themselves a critic is never to be simply trusted outright; you have to get to know them and see where they're coming from first before you can really understand what their opinions mean. This thread is no different, I think.

You make a very good point. But for someone such as myself, I rated the first couple of K-ON! episodes pretty good, then my ratings took a rapid plunge, but have stayed consistently low since then. Would you say that the first couple of episodes were uncharacteristic of me, or the next 8?

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Well, yeah. I want to say that I think it's somewhat cyclical. I know for me personally it isn't by any means the first time I've pointed out these issues over the years. But, like everything else, it's a counter-trend. I mean it's not as if it isn't obvious; to be part of the "AnimeSuki Cool Kids Club" you must:

1. Watch raws, even if you don't understand Japanese
2. Comment on said raws, even if you're only guessing at what was said
3. Leaf through the source material before the episode airs, or act as if you've done so
4. Complain that every deviation from the source material is inherently bad, regardless of any possible benefits of said modified approach
5. Treat everything you dislike in a show as an inherent flaw that deserves to be criticized, rather than a simple personal preference.

If you do this around here, you're somehow seen as being smart, sophisticated, and having discriminating tastes. But fundamentally, I haven't seen these people demonstrate that much evidence of greater insight into plot, characterization, or storytelling, which you might expect given the much broader scope of exposure they have to the franchises they discuss. In the end, it seems to me that most of this is just done to "fit in" on the forum, and not really out of a great appreciation for the anime, the story, or anything else. It's just the routine -- the role one plays.

I don't see this as being completely true because a lot of points you make are only accepted "norms" by about 50-60% (At most, but there is no real way to quantify this, just my own mental picture) of the general anime population while the rest object to many of these points.

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I just feel like whenever the forum experience becomes the product and not simply the byproduct, something of the simple joy of entertainment is lost. Recently, I feel as though this forum has almost passed that point, and as you point out, it seems that others are realizing the same thing. If you don't enjoy anime, what's the point?

I don't see how the forum can be the product of entertainment. A forum needs a topic of discussion to exist... One can exist with out the other, but one exists only if the other exists no? Unless you are trying to say, maybe if I understand, that people seek entertainment through the forum of anime rather than the anime itself.

If that is the case though, I do not know how you would determine whether or not a forum could reach such a point and how you would judge if someone is doing such in the first place.

If it is true though, which I highly doubt it would be at all, then it is a sad fact.