[Captain Bluebeard]

Originally Posted by Patchwork Chimera

Who's in the right? Don't tell me miss 'Bribing and trying to sway the siblings into going along with a murder game' is not fucked up. I say I agree with her in the 'pitying a person doesn't mean I can forgive them for mass murdering my precious family, friends', and more like that 'Yasu's portrayal is so flimsy that forgiving her is just a moronic thing to do for Battler'.

And allow me to say that calling 'Battler a moron for forgiving Yasu' is more fucked up than everything. I'm not trying to pass Yasu off as a saint, because I am perfectly aware of all the sins (I also don't think she really committed, but let's stick to PieceYasu for argument's sake) she committed.

Wasn't that her furniture following her game of north wind and sun? Just look how everybody called her out, Virgilia, the one who helped her to cook the scheme, or Ronove, who's just one person and doesn't really care about the humans.

You're not following what I mean by reffering to EP3. I was talking more about Battler slapping the shit out of Beatrice and doing exactly what you said 'call her on her selfishness'. Yeah, part of her strategy, but Battler calls her on it for real, and Beatrice is hurt by that for real.

And people who forgive those who crucified them are called saints. A normal human would break hard under torture. Yeah, all humans have the ability to become saints and forgive. But rarely they go with that path. Normally they search a lawyer and try to give the bastard a shot. Or at least a life sentence.

Battler doesn't have to be a saint to forgive Beatrice, and I see how reffering to religion as an example was a bad idea, I just thought this was the best and most moving act of forgiveness there was to reffer to. Battler isn't a saint, but he isn't a moron either. Would it make for a better story if Battler took Beatrice to the Eisnere Jungfraw lawyers and had them confiscate every penny she owns in compensation through legal means? I don't think it would.

And at any rate, I'm not sure if it is even possible to make excuses for Yasu's actions. While I do understand the motive that's used to back it up, understanding is totally different from forgiving or even justifying. However, just because there is no excuse, it doesn't mean Battler, the person who is the target of her revenge (and everyone else, taking how they act in EP8) shouldn't forgive her. How can you call them stupid for that?

Hm... that's a little strong, but I believe a hundred and more years of repeatedly being murdered and watch your family get murdered goes into insane shit that can't be really compared to anything that happens in life.

To that, I will agree. That is why I think Yasu's motive shouldn't be perceived along the lines of reality. Despite that, as far as Umineko's context is concerned, I find Yasu a very 'human' character.

Yasu is making a storm about silly things. Maria was trying to go on with her life. Yasu had hope about someone else coming and solving her problems. Maria had hope about being strong and live her life happily, regardless of not being able to change her mother's violence.

But Maria did change her mother's violence. She changed it whenever she blamed it on the bad witch, or whenever she excused her mother for neglecting her. Maria isn't really going on with her life. She 'tweaks' the sad reality into a happy one, which is kinda the opposite. Having said that, I still don't find her pitiful or stupid for that.

A nineteen year old tried to find someone who would take her away and love her. She dreamed about being acknowledged... when people like George and Jessica acknowledged her already.

Except what they acknowledge is nothing more than a facade Yasu puts up in order to hide her real self because she herself cannot find acceptance for it. Yasu isn't sure if they would do the same with her real self, and that's her real issue here. The fact that she is incapable of accepting herself is what renders her unable to be accepted by anyone else.