View Single Post
Old 2012-05-15, 04:11   Link #28844
Vnonymous
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renall View Post
The issue is that the things the omniscient-form narrator says are directly contradicted by statements about the nature of being GM in ep8. It's an inconsistency that cannot be avoided, no matter your perspective on Battler's motivations or lack thereof in ep6. Either Battler knew what was going on and could only possibly have been planning things the whole time (and ep6's narration is wrong or misleading) or he didn't know what was going on and he/Beatrice/Lambda are full of crap (and ep8's dialogue is wrong or misleading).
I'm still a bit confused as to where exactly Episode 8's narration contradicts Incompetent Battler, and I also fail to see how Ange's reading for Featherine makes the narration unreliable. She's reading, not writing, and I got the impression from episode 6 that Featherine wanted Ange to read so that she would have someone to discuss the tale with(which is why episode 6 is full of scenes where Ange and Featherine question each other and discuss what is happening). Featherine needed a reader so she had a partner to theorise and reason with, not so she had someone to make mistakes and botch the tale that she wrote.

Quote:
It breaks down when its logical conclusion is applied to real life. When you see an optical illusion, do you think that means you shouldn't bother using your eyes any more because they provide unreliable data? When a person lies to you once, does that mean that you can never trust anything they ever say to you again? And to truly hold your position and take it to a consistent logical conclusion means you should dismiss all of Umineko's Fantasy scenes as completely useless, even for hints.
You have missed an important distinction. If you see an illusion, you are seeing an illusion - something that looks like something else. A lie in the internal narration of a character is more akin to a hallucination - and when you are hallucinating, you indeed cannot trust the information your senses are giving you. There's a big difference between a hologram of something and a hallucination of the same thing, and in the latter case you do actually have to throw out a lot of the information your senses are telling you. Umineko's fantasy scenes are illusions, but not hallucinations.

Genius Battler also runs into the problem of the scenes of Battler trapped in the logic error which are littered throughout Episode 6 - He had no plan to get himself out of there, to the point that his "heart died", and these scenes even take place before Ange starts reading to Featherine, with the obvious implication being that the narration is reliable. Furthermore, "I don't have a problem losing the smaller fights to set up the big win" fails to take into account just how serious the logic error is. A logic error is not a "smaller fight", it is the end of Battler and everything he fought for and the ultimate desecration of the one thing he had left from Beatrice. That's the exact opposite of a "smaller fight", unless Battler was so desperately in love with Beatrice that he'd commit suicide and desecrate her corpse in an attempt to bring her back to life.
Vnonymous is offline   Reply With Quote