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Old 2011-10-20, 15:16   Link #1899
ginran
~Smile~
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: U.S.A
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamiken View Post
I think they'll always definitely be that, unless somewhere were to happen to really drive a wedge between them (in which case someone like V.V. or Schneizel would most likely be blame). But anyway, that's a topic more suited to the C.C. thread. XD
Haha yea, it is an very interesting topic but not for this thread. XD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamiken View Post
Adding to the idea of Shirley averting the Zero Requiem: it does of course rest on the assumption that the Zero Requiem was a bad thing, or at least that equally good alternatives existed. A lot of people say that Lelouch should've just ruled Britannia well, as he seemed to start doing, but I'm not so sure about this. Whilst Lelouch is undoubtedly brilliant, see, he's at his heart a rebel, a revolutionary, not an establishment figure. He operates by far at his best when he's outside the system, not within it. History itself tells us that such character archetypes often do badly if they are placed in charge of the system, even a new system of their own making - even if they don't fall into outright tyranny, which Lelouch, had he not been pulling a Zero Popularity Gambit, hopefully wouldn't have, they often lack the skills to transform their vision into a reality without a tangible enemy to agitate against - or, if they do manage to successfully transform what they're now in charge of, they just prove to be somewhat incompetent about managing it afterwards, or at least not as suited to doing so as others. Would Lelouch have been able to avoid this? Perhaps, but I'm not convinced. So that's one facet of the objections to the Zero Requiem that I disagree with.

... buuuuuut, that was more about Lelouch than Shirley. ^^; Sorry. Shirley, Shirley, Shirley, what to say about Shirley... okay, here's an idea: what exactly do you think would have happened if Shirley had survived, apart from what's already been discussed? Would she have joined the Black Knights? It seems likely if she was intending to be at Lelouch's side, but one would have thought that might make her uncomfortable... the Black Knights being the organisation that were, directly or indirectly, responsible for her father's death. Admittedly, she's already gone through a similar inner conflict concerning Lelouch himself, of course, and Lelouch came out on top in that, but the difference, naturally, is that she loves Lelouch, whereas the Black Knights...? She is a Britannian, after all, and even if the Black Knights do make a point - when it suits Lelouch, at least - of being against the Britannian state, not the Britannian people, they're still trying to destroy her home nation. That, I'd have thought, would surely make her a little uncomfortable at least, even if she doesn't share the racist nationalism that pervades the thinking and feeling of a lot of her fellow citizens and their government.
Hmm, I can definately see how you'd have those thoughts on Zero Requiem. It ultimately didn't end up being a disaster with what it accomplished, but I think there must have been other options that wouldn't have ended in his death. You have a good point about a need to break the typical cycle of his character type...and I think he could have pulled it off somehow. I'm not entirely sure how I'd see it happening right now though, sorry I can't offer more at the moment. XD But that could make a very interesting convo on his thread.

As far as Shirley if she lived...I think she would have joined the Black Knights despite some awkwardness at the start. I got the impression she was willing to join Lelouch in whatever he was trying to accomplish when she followed him into the danger zone. While she was more focused on helping Lelouch as a person at that time, I think she could come to see the Black Knights as a group who stands for the greater good, or at least put aside any reservations about them for his sake. But at the same time, its hard to say that for sure considering she is Britannian, and for the other reasons you stated, most importantly that their attack unintentionally resulted in her father dying. That's actually a hard topic to get a solid conclusion on for those very reasons...but Shirley's philosophy on life that "nothing is unforgivable" makes me feel like her being a Black Knight could have possibly worked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamiken
Oh, and on another unrelated note (sorry!), this time completely and utterly off-topic: who are the characters in your signature? I feel like I should recognise them, but I can't place their names, or the anime they're from.
It's okay! Haha, they are Jasdevi (Devit and Jasdero) from D.Gray-Man. I've had this sig for so long, but I love it too much to change anytime soon. <3
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Thanks to Yuka-Chan for the sig!
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