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DonQuigleone · 2012-07-28, 08:46

Something that I think needs to be born in mind is the effect more guns in wide circulation has on criminal organizations. It makes them much stronger. And, eventually, it gives them power that can be used to defy state law enforcement.

Now you can argue that's why we need to give people the ability to defend themselves, by allowing them gun ownership. But the truth, as I see it, is that it won't really help them much, not at the really decisive moment.

Yes, it will help in the hypothetical "home invasion" scenario, but that's not actually what I'd be most afraid of. It's organised crime that's the far bigger threat.

The average person cannot stand up to an organised crime group. No matter how you look at it, 1 gun does not beat 6 guns, in an organised formation (no matter how many action movies you watch). This creates the situation where criminals can "tax" civilians at will. Civilians will have to either fork out substantial amounts of cash for "protection" or pay to maintain a private militia, or pay more tax dollars for a larger police force. Ultimately the same outcome -> less safety for everyone, and everyone has to pay an economic cost, paying protection money to criminals is ultimately the same as paying to maintain a militia (or larger police force). And many militias end out morphing into organised crime anyway. Consider, what are those militiamen going to do once civilians feel the criminals are gone and are no longer needed? Will they peacefully put down their arms, or will they use their power to maintain their position? I like to think the former will occur, but greed is a powerful motivator.

And this is not an imaginary hypothetical situation. It's already occuring in Mexico. The people either have to pay the Cartels for protection, or pay to maintain a force of men to protect themselves, all the while the death toll continues to mount.

Now Mexico has tried gun control, but it's always been compromised by the thousands of officials in the pockets of the cartels, who willfully choose not to enforce the law.

I don't think these massacres are the main reason to enforce gun control. The main reason is the continued safety and stability of society at large.

2012-07-28, 08:46	Link #59
DonQuigleone Knight Errant Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Dublin, Ireland Age: 35	Something that I think needs to be born in mind is the effect more guns in wide circulation has on criminal organizations. It makes them much stronger. And, eventually, it gives them power that can be used to defy state law enforcement. Now you can argue that's why we need to give people the ability to defend themselves, by allowing them gun ownership. But the truth, as I see it, is that it won't really help them much, not at the really decisive moment. Yes, it will help in the hypothetical "home invasion" scenario, but that's not actually what I'd be most afraid of. It's organised crime that's the far bigger threat. The average person cannot stand up to an organised crime group. No matter how you look at it, 1 gun does not beat 6 guns, in an organised formation (no matter how many action movies you watch). This creates the situation where criminals can "tax" civilians at will. Civilians will have to either fork out substantial amounts of cash for "protection" or pay to maintain a private militia, or pay more tax dollars for a larger police force. Ultimately the same outcome -> less safety for everyone, and everyone has to pay an economic cost, paying protection money to criminals is ultimately the same as paying to maintain a militia (or larger police force). And many militias end out morphing into organised crime anyway. Consider, what are those militiamen going to do once civilians feel the criminals are gone and are no longer needed? Will they peacefully put down their arms, or will they use their power to maintain their position? I like to think the former will occur, but greed is a powerful motivator. And this is not an imaginary hypothetical situation. It's already occuring in Mexico. The people either have to pay the Cartels for protection, or pay to maintain a force of men to protect themselves, all the while the death toll continues to mount. Now Mexico has tried gun control, but it's always been compromised by the thousands of officials in the pockets of the cartels, who willfully choose not to enforce the law. I don't think these massacres are the main reason to enforce gun control. The main reason is the continued safety and stability of society at large.